How can people be so brutal with refugees, really?

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I've asked you at least 10 questions, since you know you're on the wrong side you've refused to answer a single one. You've instead resorted to tossing around cheesy graphics. You misjudge the audience of this forum-- the people on this forum as a whole are smarter than average people, if you'd bother to actually read posts as opposed to blathering on about your jingoistic pride you'd realize that. That makes your graphics meaningless, they're merely shiny objects and the people here are too smart for that. Just because shiny objects confuse and distract you doesn't mean it works on everyone, certainly not here.



Now, boy, let me show you how to stand up, be a man, and answer a question: Obviously the refugees are a mass migration, illegal immigration in the United States is also a mass migration. These two events are both immigration issues-- if you can't follow that simple logic you should just exit the debate because you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.


You misjudge me. I believe in solving problems, disputes, and arguments with words like a civilized and evolved person does. That being said, if my opposition chooses to devolve into animalism, violence, and brute force I will respond in kind. I fear no man, not the hillbillies here, and certainly not a brash talker with no balls to actually engage such as yourself. I believe in violence as a last resort, not a first, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there's a time and a place to use it.

You basically have two options: 1. you can either start answering the questions like a man and we can actually start debating this issue or 2. you can plaster up some more graphics and hem-haw around like a clown and watch me just move onto another debate because at that point you've proven that I won.

On the other hand a lot of ordinary UK people are offering to take refugees into their homes. I believe Sir Bob is putting his money where his big mouth is and offering his big house. We cannot offer any real solution to the bigger problem, but hearts are being moved.

However, Inventor does have a point. Something should be done at the source, but goodness knows what the answer is. Pouring money in can increase the populations and physical restraint leads to more war. How would you rebuild Syria right now? There is a fear that IS are moving with the refugees. It allows for thousands of terroists into Europe. The world is in a mess.

Oh my!
Aristotlesairplanes is issuing a challenge to the ball-less man child he claims is wasting his time. And if I don't answer his questions the "audience" will see me for what I am.
Whatever shall I do?!?!

Illegal immigration, colonialism, legal immigration, border hopping......call it what you like. These are unique demographic shifts as they precede the changes that are coming with a growing and maturing capitalism. I find it remarkable that anyone on here who is supposedly different cognitively can be taken in by Trump....who makes his money out of the new economic paradigm. I am all the more surprised that Trump can speak so eloquently on this issue and with such conviction, knowing that he is not going to deliver.

The market place is all about maximising profit anyway one can. It is a fallacy to think that employers are able to prefer locals over cheap border hopping alternatives. Their hands are tied if they are to survive with growing competition.

Try not to be emotional guys and use your noggins/

If they had good intel on how to locate the key players it would be useful work for the drones.

Raptor

It would pay to listen to aristophanes...he is the superior intellect of you two.

Good, now that that's settled, I'm willing to discuss this issue with anyone who's going to be serious.



No doubt. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the businessmen in the EU were the ones driving the governments to accept the Syrian refugees. For the practical reasons you mentioned it's not popular with the local populations in the EU and common sense would determine that the EU governments would reject the refugees on that basis, but against that logic they're inviting the migration. That tells me the governments in Europe are just as controlled by big business interests as they are here in the states.

But that's only part of the issue, there is an entire humanitarian aspect to the Syrian refugee crisis. How civilized can a nation be when they push out hungry, destitute people just looking for survival? I'd like to say there's a balance there between being civilized and still protecting local interests, but in this case I'm just not seeing it and it does disturb me. Hopefully someone well above my pay grade has an answer.

aristophanes

Our very difficulties as a cognitively more rational group (I appreciate that the label autistic covers a multitude of states but there is a core group, the more dispassionate sub group, invariably nerdish whom I refer to) should alert us as to the forces at play here, the wilful tribalism that still drives the vast majority of humanity. That however is more a function of material conditions than genetics. When evolution endowed human primates with self awareness, that was a significant break from the auto pilot of instinct.

Current material conditions dictate a global market or else capitalists will simply choke off sources of profit and wither away, even the Trumps of the world. For that the market will globalise no matter how much the as yet slowly conscientising masses may rebel. In fact, no Hitler can resist these forces. I would recommend understanding the role of consciousness as theorised by quantum physics....and most importantly, the material equivalent of Hegelian dialectics.

In fact, as historic systems go, capitalism being meritorious, is the most progressive and will drag the protesting masses, kicking and flailing (and that includes the fuedal muslim) to modernity and globalism. Evolution contemplates a pure logic driven social economy but that has yet to come. However, logic driven autistics point the way to the new man or woman where reason and pure self awareness will be the norm.

You sense these forces and I recommend your wisdom to your detractors.

You speak so rationally and eloquently that I'm forced to concur.
I will have to read up on consciousness as theorised by quantum physics, but I am very familiar with Hegel's dialectic approach. In fact they should rid the world of the dreaded "college research paper" and just call it a Hegelian dialectic.
I would like to discuss evolutionary sentience at a much greater length, I'm curious about your views, but that is completely off topic to this thread-- perhaps I will start a thread in a day or two when I have more time and I'll place a thesis that can be deconstructed and debated by the community as a whole.

All that said, I like your idea of the future, I just don't see it anytime in the next few centuries. Individual humans seem to evolve more rapidly than the memetics that drive our societies, unfortunately in a technological nuclear world this creates a sort of time-bomb: will we evolve our societies to peacefully coexist before we create so much bad blood that we destroy ourselves?

@ aristophanes

I look forward to your new thread.

The important takeaway from all of this and one that is on topic is that the same objective forces that determine the structure of the cosmos, our planet and yes, even the markets (which I harness to trade) are driving globalism, has a particular terminus as far as human consciousness goes and no normative human tinkering by any politician or group can halt it.

Lol, if that's what "superior intellect" looks like I prefer to proudly remain an unlettered churl.

This world is made up of those who see the world through normative glasses (for the most part the allistic world and those on the autistic spectrum closer to the normative end.) and those who see or sense the objective nature of life. Ideally, all conscious beings should occupy the objective range but man is a WIP. So to that extent, aristophanes intellect is superior as it sees cause and effect more clearly.

But that does not infer that normative consciousness is lesser. Only that an objective sentience puts one in greater touch with reason and cause and effect. But on the scale of accessing groupthink, half complete pictures and the tribe, clearly the normative wins hands down and some may say that tribalism is preferable to reason.

It's interesting that ISIS are reported to have sent many of their trained militia back in the EU as covert operatives. If just one civilian in the EU dies as a result of a covert terrorist returning as a refugee then lets see how quickly the gates will be closed.

cyberdad

The Muslim is between a rock and a hard place with the world economy. On the one hand he seeks to preserve the Islamic Empire and Islam and impose it on the rest of us..that is what empires do. On the other hand he is seduced by the vast potential in capitalist economics, a potential which outstrips the Bronze Age economics of Islam. To that extent, he has never fouled the capitalist nest out of this ambivalence.

At worst, all they will do in Europe is prosletyse, generally be a pain in the arse and slowly and unknowingly, be swallowed by capitalist social relations.

Capitalism is the most powerful set of relations to date and nothing can stop its spread.

All I have to say is that you can be too charitable and it can be abused. Caution should be the feeling.

Seen it too many times on the interpersonal level, and it can apply to groups all the same.

I too am completely disgusted!

The problem is politics
In my country, Australia
a politician (John Howard) came to power by absolutely stripping all refugees of humanity
he lied to the voting public and won another election
(the infamous Tampa incident)

now, both sides of politics are agreeing on the harshest measures towards refugees,
in order to secure votes.

By sowing fear into the voting public

who live at ease

and have nothing to fear

but what politicians tell them!