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Aristophanes
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07 Oct 2015, 10:57 am

Jono wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Atmosphere's great, gravity is great, but you know what's necessary before any of that? A magnetosphere to hold all that crap in and prevent radiation from wiping out virtually any biological matter on the surface. To do that you'd need to reignite the dead core of the planet to get the iron mixing, good luck on that. Also in other news, they discovered a giant brown streak on Uranus...yes you did just read that.


The magnetosphere isn't responsible for holding the atmosphere in, or rather it depends on what you mean by that. The Earth's magnetosphere prevents the solar wind from blowing away the Earth's atmosphere. We know that Mars used to have a magnetosphere as well because there are still remnants of it but the loss of it's magnetosphere could be what was responsible for the loss of it's original atmosphere as well.


From wikipedia:
Mars lost its magnetosphere 4 billion years ago,[139] possibly because of numerous asteroid strikes,[140] so the solar wind interacts directly with the Martian ionosphere, lowering the atmospheric density by stripping away atoms from the outer layer.

We know plate tectonics slowed to about nill approximately 3 billion years ago, the conclusion we can draw is that the core is fairly inactive and "cold" compared to other terrestrial planets such as Earth. The most feasible theory is that Mars doesn't generate enough iron mixing in it's core to provide strong enough magnetism to create a powerful enough magnetosphere to protect against the solar wind-- wikipedia is slightly inaccurate on this front, it has a magnetosphere, but it's so weak it has almost no interaction with passing particles and is currently irrelevant when talking Martian atmosphere. So the way I choose to look at it is that the magnetosphere is like a blanket, if you want to keep all the good things generated in the atmosphere from being stripped away (planet wide), you would need the magnetosphere in place first. No it doesn't actually hold anything "in", it prevents what's "in" from being blown away-- but it's easier for most people to understand the concept of a magnetosphere in this instance if you treat it like gravity (a force that does hold things in) than it is to treat it as electromagnetism, since most lay people have a poor understanding of the other three forces outside of gravity. I mean getting into ionization, polarity, etc is just going to confuse more people than it's going to help, and those that understand those concepts already know what I'm talking about.



ProbablyOverthinkingThisUsername
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07 Oct 2015, 11:25 am

glebel wrote:
Let's face it, if anyone is going to live on Mars, they will have to live underground. Not an existence I would care for.
Why don't we quit pissing away money on a planet we can't use and spend it here where it is needed? :x

How would you propose we use that money in a useful way? Compared to what is already spent on welfare, NASA's budget is a drop in the bucket.



Nambo
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07 Oct 2015, 1:41 pm

I am looking forward to how NASA will convince us how they overcome the following.
Mars Gravity is 38% that of Earth.
The launch vehicle from Earth will in addition to its own fuel, have to carry enough fuel to not only land on Mars, but then take off again as they wont be able to refuel when they get there, you can imagine how hard its going to be to take off from Earth with all that additional weight.

Maybe they will employ levitation as they did with the Lunar Module



glebel
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07 Oct 2015, 2:43 pm

ProbablyOverthinkingThisUsername wrote:
glebel wrote:
Let's face it, if anyone is going to live on Mars, they will have to live underground. Not an existence I would care for.
Why don't we quit pissing away money on a planet we can't use and spend it here where it is needed? :x

How would you propose we use that money in a useful way? Compared to what is already spent on welfare, NASA's budget is a drop in the bucket.

That 'drop in the bucket' still adds up to billions of dollars over the years. People should drop their Star Trek mentality and realize that there is one planet that counts. You may of heard of it, it's called Earth.
We know less about the depths of our oceans than we do about the surface of the moon. The oceans are of more use and are more accessible than even the moon, let alone Mars.
And yet various governments pander to what is effectively a fantasy. How about seeking to improve marginal lands here rather than babble on about terraforming another planet?


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ProbablyOverthinkingThisUsername
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07 Oct 2015, 9:18 pm

glebel wrote:
That 'drop in the bucket' still adds up to billions of dollars over the years. People should drop their Star Trek mentality and realize that there is one planet that counts. You may of heard of it, it's called Earth.
We know less about the depths of our oceans than we do about the surface of the moon. The oceans are of more use and are more accessible than even the moon, let alone Mars.
And yet various governments pander to what is effectively a fantasy. How about seeking to improve marginal lands here rather than babble on about terraforming another planet?

Oh, absolutely, the oceans are worth exploring. It's not a zero-sum game in my opinion, both can be explored and expanded into. But the oceans are far smaller than the expanses of space, and long-term they won't be enough.

Settlement in space (I'm not talking terraforming, which is an insurmountable problem right now, just small bubble towns) provides a failsafe in case of doomsday scenarios on Earth. In addition there are vast stores of resources to be found in asteroid mining.

That said, I will concede that governments are not the most ideal actors in this, as they are notoriously inefficient and wasteful. But I don't think we can achieve any sort of utopian dream on Earth. I am convinced that the problem with humanity is humanity... the pioneering spirit gives some escape from this but it has been stifled in the past century or so. Not to mention that improving marginal lands in some areas could cause disasters in others. The Sahara Desert, for instance, fertilizes the Amazon (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... ra/260655/).



thewrll
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08 Oct 2015, 2:55 am

I still wonder why the presence of water means life. Why are there only aliens of some sort when there is water. What if they can absorb their sustenance from their version of air?


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naturalplastic
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08 Oct 2015, 5:37 am

Not only is life as we know it dependent upon water, but it seems to have evolved in water in the first place.

But its possible that some other fluid might perform the same function that water (transporting nutrients in a circulatory system for example) does in some radically different planet with life of a radically different biochemistry evolving.



kazanscube
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08 Oct 2015, 1:41 pm

I've heard this though, this water happens to be frozen beneath the surface around the Martian polar caps.However, it's not impossible to heat up the water through scientific means but, we're a long way from being able to alter an atmosphere on another planet to make it habitable for humankind. Still, Mars is an interesting to think of oneday journeying to.


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