How do you suppose we help would be school shooters?
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well you have me on Switzerland but it's usually libertarians that hold them up, most leftists in this country either completely ignore the Swiss or condemn them as some evil banking villain. They also kind of destroy any gun control argument since they actually require their militia store automatic "assault rifles" in their homes and they have which encompasses most of the young men in the country and they have one lowest homicide rates in the world. The Swiss did kind of sell out when they joined the UN in 2002 tho.
What total BS pro gun nonsense. Switzerland certainly does not destroy any gun control argument. It is proof that gun control does work. It should be a model for the US. Even with military weapons included, gun possession in Switzerland is a fraction what it is in the US. They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does. All guns are registered in Switzerland, and the only way the Swiss can buy a gun is with a weapons acquisition permit. Which is the way it should be in the US.
Jamaica and Honduras also great gun ground argument. Highest murder rates in the world, guns completely banned.
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test. Most of these "crazy" people didn't do anything that warranted taking away their rights before the awful crimes that they did. Someone like this Chris Harper-whatever kid was not psychotic or incompetent, other than some troubling but pretty common interests what warning signs were there? The kid was sociopath that was coddled and reinforced by his mother but he could of just as well been a person posting on this site.
People also need to know the "crazy people" usually weren't always crazy and if you weren't always crazy then there is no way to predict the extent someone will unravel. Hindsight is 20/20 but do you realize that there are literally millions of people that fit the some profile that never harm a soul in their life?
Basically none of these kneejerk emotion gun control proposals would of prevented any of these killings, our constitution is clear, violence has been falling since the 70s but media hysteria is at all time high. We can make this a much less violent country, we could make a lot more caring one, it doesn't have to do anything with guns. Your directing all this hate towards an object, a tool, instead of attacking the real relevant drivers of violence in this country which mainly are poverty and the war on drugs. If you were a Jew in Germany in the 1930s, would you have preferred you and your people had guns or not? Don't worship government like a god, provider of everything, understand it can happen anywhere.
By trying to understand them and not just saying s**t like "Ohh! He was just a crazy, delusional monster!!"
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Here, I'll help:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/possession-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
Quote:
Prohibited persons[edit]
The Gun Control Act of 1968 was enhanced in 1993 with the passage of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. The Brady Act created a background check system which required licensed sellers to inspect the criminal history background of prospective gun purchasers, and the Brady Act created a list of categories of individuals to whom the sale of firearms is prohibited. As quoted from 18 U.S.C. 922 (d):
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person— (1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; (2) is a fugitive from justice; (3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); (4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution; (5) who, being an alien— (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26))); (6) who [2] has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; (8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that— (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and (B) (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or (9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 was enhanced in 1993 with the passage of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. The Brady Act created a background check system which required licensed sellers to inspect the criminal history background of prospective gun purchasers, and the Brady Act created a list of categories of individuals to whom the sale of firearms is prohibited. As quoted from 18 U.S.C. 922 (d):
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person— (1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; (2) is a fugitive from justice; (3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); (4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution; (5) who, being an alien— (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26))); (6) who [2] has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; (8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that— (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and (B) (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or (9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
Raptor wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Jacoby wrote:
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test.
Stop trolling. Back ground checks in the US are a joke, and you know it. You find somebody with a gun you want, you hand then the money, they hand you the gun. You can't do that in any other civilized country in the world.
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Jacoby wrote:
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test.
Stop trolling. Back ground checks in the US are a joke, and you know it. You find somebody with a gun you want, you hand then the money, they hand you the gun. You can't do that in any other civilized country in the world.
Pretty sure you can do that any place on Earth, that is generally how you buy things. A "crazy" person as determined by the state is not allow to own or buy a weapon, neither are felons or domestic abusers. What else do you want the background check to look for? Explain how someone like this kid in Oregon would fail one or any of these other shootings, for the most part none of them had done anything that would of warranted it and they just plain screwed up with the Dylan Roof kid. There are ways to get around it, making something illegal does not eliminate demand but rather just increases scarcity which just makes the criminals who still engage in it very very rich. Prohibition never works. A lot of the crime in this country which like I said is mostly confined to poor urban settings usually is committed with illegal guns, guess what real criminals aren't so stupid to use guns that can be traced by to them.
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Jacoby wrote:
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test.
Stop trolling. Back ground checks in the US are a joke, and you know it. You find somebody with a gun you want, you hand then the money, they hand you the gun. You can't do that in any other civilized country in the world.
Trolling? Who's trolling?
Here's a textbook example of trolling a few months ago on the first page of the Charleston church shooting:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=288062
0regonGuy wrote:
NRA terrorists strike again.
It's still illegal for a person judged F'ed up in the head to buy or possess a firearm. We can't assign someone to watch them 24/7 any more than we can post a narc on each persons property to make sure they're not growing reefer or making meth. Really, if you're that paranoid about guns then move to Australia where you can at least live under the illusion of safety.
And did you notice that in that video of yours that she said how "AR-15's are selling like hot cakes out of fear of a ban"?
What should that tell you?
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
starfox wrote:
Say we can identify someone who might go of the rails or cause a shooting; how do you suppose the person could be helped before they get to that level?
Give him lots and lots and lots of hugs, cuddles, affection...
Keep your sons and daughters AWAY from violent videogames like DOOM.
Keep the family unit together, unless one of the parents is really really really abusive towards any member of the family. And then send everyone into therapy.
_________________
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 123 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 116 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits
Raptor wrote:
Trolling? Who's trolling?
Here's a textbook example of trolling a few months ago on the first page of the Charleston church shooting:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=288062
Here's a textbook example of trolling a few months ago on the first page of the Charleston church shooting:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=288062
0regonGuy wrote:
NRA terrorists strike again.
That is a true statement, unlike your pretending that you need a background check to buy a gun in the US.
Jacoby wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Jacoby wrote:
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test.
Stop trolling. Back ground checks in the US are a joke, and you know it. You find somebody with a gun you want, you hand then the money, they hand you the gun. You can't do that in any other civilized country in the world.
Pretty sure you can do that any place on Earth, that is generally how you buy things. A "crazy" person as determined by the state is not allow to own or buy a weapon, neither are felons or domestic abusers.
No, no where else in the civilized world is it like that. You are the one who used Switzerland as an example of a country that you claim destroys gun control arguments because it's so safe. In reality they have incredibly strong gun control, and is highly successful at keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people, who might use them to commit mass
murder. and they are tightening their gun control laws even more all the time.
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Trolling? Who's trolling?
Here's a textbook example of trolling a few months ago on the first page of the Charleston church shooting:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=288062
Here's a textbook example of trolling a few months ago on the first page of the Charleston church shooting:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=288062
0regonGuy wrote:
NRA terrorists strike again.
That is a true statement,
So tell me by characteristic how the NRA is a terrorist organization. Take your time.
Quote:
unlike your pretending that you need a background check to buy a gun in the US.
If you buy anything classified as a firearm from an FFL dealer you do, as required by federal law, undergo an instant background check and fill out a 4473. Unless required by state or local laws, transfers from one individual to another do not require a background check. I've never pretended it was anything different.
The onus is on you to justify imposing background checks on all transfers since you're the one that wants them. "I want", "I think", and "This is how they do it in Eastern Slobovia" (or wherever) isn't justification.
Quote:
A video of foreigners with the help of a clueless American whining about the NRA. If it's not the NRA then it'll be something else.
Zippity doo dah.
Newsflash.
The NRA is a lobbying organization, not a legislative body. The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is also a lobbying organization. The NRA has more members, more contributors and supporters, and more money so therefor is more powerful and this is where the butthurt seems to lie. The NRA actually promotes gun safety through education while the Brady Center believes avoidance and regulation are the answer. In other words, the former addresses the reality while the the latter buries its head in the sand.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
They don't allow crazy people do buy guns like the US does.
Could you please explain to the rest of us how the US allows cray people to buy guns?
Jacoby wrote:
Crazy people are not allowed to buy guns in the US, how do you think we should screen these people? It's silly, yes if you have been committed you will not pass a background test.
Stop trolling. Back ground checks in the US are a joke, and you know it. You find somebody with a gun you want, you hand then the money, they hand you the gun. You can't do that in any other civilized country in the world.
Pretty sure you can do that any place on Earth, that is generally how you buy things. A "crazy" person as determined by the state is not allow to own or buy a weapon, neither are felons or domestic abusers.
No, no where else in the civilized world is it like that. You are the one who used Switzerland as an example of a country that you claim destroys gun control arguments because it's so safe. In reality they have incredibly strong gun control, and is highly successful at keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people, who might use them to commit mass
murder. and they are tightening their gun control laws even more all the time.
I've noted that the Swiss have lost their way in recent years, should of never joined the UN or any of that stuff so no surprise that things may be changing probably for the worst. The mentally ill do an insignificant amount of violent crime and you still can't explain how we're suppose to screen these people out either, they're not the real issue but rather just a scary boogeyman. Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem. You can buy anything anywhere if there is someone selling it, making it illegal only makes the people involved criminals. Heroin very illegal, I can buy some probably with in 20 minutes of walking out my door pretty easily. Illegal guns weren't that hard to get where I grew up and we weren't even allowed to CCW. Prohibition never works.
Raptor wrote:
So tell me by characteristic how the NRA is a terrorist organization. Take your time.
No need to take any time. It's simple. The NRA empowers crazy people to get guns and cary out terror attacks against American citizens. They do so by fighting any and all laws that might make it difficult for these people to carry out their terror attacks.
If there was say Islamic terrorists operating in the US, and there was an organization of American's who were selling them arms to carry out terrorist attacks on US citizens, there would be no debate that that organization was a terrorists organization. The NRA is no different.
Raptor wrote:
A video of foreigners with the help of a clueless American whining about the NRA. If it's not the NRA then it'll be something else.
Xenophobia much? Here is a hint. When the entire world, people of various different countries and cultures all think that you are acting a bit crazy, either 1. they are all wrong, which is not very likely, because by definition a crazy person is a person who appears out of place, or seems different from the majority, or 2. they are right.
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.
They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
So tell me by characteristic how the NRA is a terrorist organization. Take your time.
No need to take any time. It's simple. The NRA empowers crazy people to get guns and cary out terror attacks against American citizens. They do so by fighting any and all laws that might make it difficult for these people to carry out their terror attacks.
If there was say Islamic terrorists operating in the US, and there was an organization of American's who were selling them arms to carry out terrorist attacks on US citizens, there would be no debate that that organization was a terrorists organization. The NRA is no different.
The NRA empowers nothing. Again, it is not a lawmaking body.
You're really digging your hole deep now.
0regonGuy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A video of foreigners with the help of a clueless American whining about the NRA. If it's not the NRA then it'll be something else.
Xenophobia much? Here is a hint. When the entire world, people of various different countries and cultures all think that you are acting a bit crazy, either 1. they are all wrong, which is not very likely, because by definition a crazy person is a person who appears out of place, or seems different from the majority, or 2. they are right.
And I'm not the least little bit interested in world opinion.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.
They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.
Why not just "throw away" the whole constitution. When we start throwing away enumerated rights where does it stop?
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
Back to the topic ...
How are we supposed to "help would-be school shooters"?
Has anyone come up with an effective plan to identify them before they murder anyone?
Which is more important: One disturbed person's privacy and the right to bear arms, or the lives of innocent people and their right to an education?
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
