WARNING PALIN DIASTER WARING PALIN DIASTER

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t0
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07 Oct 2008, 10:12 am

oscuria wrote:
Just the name of obama screams terrorist!
I BELIEVE!


I sincerely hope this was sarcasm. Choosing/not choosing a candidate based on what their name rhymes with is no better than blindfolding yourself while filling out your voting card.



UncleBeer
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08 Oct 2008, 4:48 pm

Too good not to post. This, from the Denver Post:

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As the economic news — fairly or not — has provided Barack Obama the momentum this past month, John McCain has decided to bring the Illinois senator’s shady associations to the forefront. This promises to be spectacularly “negative” — and even somewhat true. But will it matter?

Former President Bill Clinton was recently asked by Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren: “What is the difference between an association with someone like David Duke and someone like Reverend [Jeremiah] Wright?” Clinton, as suave as they come, fumbled for a several moments, before he finally stating that “we don’t have to go there” and moved on to more comfortable environs.

The answer, of course, is, that anyone linked to Duke would never have been running for national office in the first place.

But Van Susteren could have asked an even more pertinent question: If McCain had a 20-year relationship with a disreputable character, would the Obama campaign make hay of the situation? Of course it would.

Associations — and in some cases political affiliations — are valid subjects for voters to chew on. Bringing it up is not a “smear,” nor is it a “distraction,” nor is it racist (though a few pundits have contorted themselves trying to prove it so). Your acquaintances speak to your judgment and character.

A terrifying thought, isn’t it?

It was The New York Times that recently explored the relationship between onetime terrorist Bill Ayers, Obama and their time at the Woods Foundation and Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a $160 million “philanthropic” venture for city public schools. Yet, The Times was soft on the specifics.

It was the Manhattan Institute’s Sol Stern who summed up Ayers’ philosophy best: “Calling Bill Ayers a school reformer is a bit like calling Joseph Stalin an agricultural reformer.” Worse, Ayers, a grisly caricature of ’60s fanaticism, has shown no remorse for his violent activities. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird — America is a great country,” he once famously gloated.

Would you sit on a board with Ayers? It’s a fair question. Obama first claimed that Ayers was a simply a guy in his neighborhood. Yet, this week CNN reported that “the relationship between Obama and Ayers went much deeper, ran much longer, and was much more political than Obama said.”

No worries. When Obama sees a distraction, he dispatches it, tout de suite.

On Tony Rezko, a convicted felon and political ally: “This isn’t the Tony Rezko I knew.” On the infamous Rev. Wright: “The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago.” On Ayers, Obama’s top political adviser says the candidate “didn’t know” about the terrorism thing. (Later, they acknowledged the two served on a board after Obama knew.)

Even with his soaring intellect and transcendent abilities, Obama sure can be clueless. Why not just lay it out, honestly? “You know, I came up in Chicago politics. The place is lousy with crooks and radicals. I did what I had to. You would, too.”



monty
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08 Oct 2008, 4:54 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
Moreover, Robert Bennett, Chief Counsel to the Democrats during the investigation, said that McCain should not be included in the investigation and that there was not evidence of any wrongdoing by Senator McCain. In fact, he was completely exonerated. (I know: pesky facts...). http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/3813449.html


No, McCain was not exonerated. None of the Keating 5 got any real penalties - they were given tongue-lashings (criticized or reprimanded, but calling 'censure' was considered too severe by the Congress, which generally can't investigate itself out of a paper bag). McCain was criticized for exercising poor judgment - it was a conflict of interest for him to intervene with regulators on behalf of his friend and business partner who disappeared billions of dollars of government insured savings and loan money.



monty
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08 Oct 2008, 5:02 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
... Blather about Obama and Ayers ...


Did ja hear that McCain just proudly listed all the former Ambassadors that have endorsed him? Near the top of the list was Lenore Annenberg - of the Annenberg Foundation, which appointed Ayers to serve on the same board as Obama. How bout that - Terrorism Lovers for McCain!! Freedom-hating US Ambassadors that coddle terrorists and endorse Grampy McGrump!



UncleBeer
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08 Oct 2008, 5:14 pm

monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
Moreover, Robert Bennett, Chief Counsel to the Democrats during the investigation, said that McCain should not be included in the investigation and that there was not evidence of any wrongdoing by Senator McCain. In fact, he was completely exonerated. (I know: pesky facts...). http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/3813449.html

No, McCain was not exonerated.

Please prove this. This is your big opportunity.

Quote:
The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him. The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate".

Clear enough?



UncleBeer
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08 Oct 2008, 5:15 pm

monty wrote:
...Grampy McGrump...

How old are you?



monty
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09 Oct 2008, 8:42 am

UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
Moreover, Robert Bennett, Chief Counsel to the Democrats during the investigation, said that McCain should not be included in the investigation and that there was not evidence of any wrongdoing by Senator McCain. In fact, he was completely exonerated. (I know: pesky facts...). http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/3813449.html

No, McCain was not exonerated.

Please prove this. This is your big opportunity.


None of the Keating 5 were convicted of violating any laws - you could say all were 'exonerated' from that standpoint, but McCain called it his biggest mistake and all 5 were found to have acted improperly.

From the Congressional report:

"The committee has examined the specific conduct of each Senator and has determined that under the totality of the circumstances: the conduct of each of the five Senators reflected poor judgment;"

McCain was a friend of Charles Keating, accepted his money, and called the regulators who were investigating Keating. That may not be blatant corruption or illegal in all circumstances - but it is a conflict of interest, poor judgment, and not the way that government representatives should behave.

McCain himself admits it was wrong, if only on the level of how it looked: "It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."


UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
...Grampy McGrump...

How old are you?


46.



UncleBeer
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09 Oct 2008, 10:28 am

monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
Moreover, Robert Bennett, Chief Counsel to the Democrats during the investigation, said that McCain should not be included in the investigation and that there was not evidence of any wrongdoing by Senator McCain. In fact, he was completely exonerated. (I know: pesky facts...). http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/3813449.html

No, McCain was not exonerated.

Please prove this. This is your big opportunity.

None of the Keating 5 were convicted of violating any laws - you could say all were 'exonerated' from that standpoint

Thank you.
monty wrote:
...but McCain called it his biggest mistake

He has said "The Vietnamese didn't question my honor." This, in contrast to the US Senate Ethics Committee. If you'd bothered to read the link I posted re: Democratic counsel Robert Bennett, you'd have known this was a political hatchet job:

Quote:
This was pure politics as the Democrats on the committee did not want to cut McCain loose so that only Democrats would remain in the proceedings.



AspE
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09 Oct 2008, 12:47 pm

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Are you going to mention about Obama's attacks towards McCain? Riiigghhhtt you are a liberal and you think its okay to put McCain down, but not Obama! Sick people in this world. You (and others) have lobotomies without having one!
[/quote]

Obama hasn't been calling McCain a terrorist. Do you have examples?



UncleBeer
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09 Oct 2008, 1:09 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5h86J6fCg[/youtube]



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09 Oct 2008, 1:45 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5h86J6fCg[/youtube]



Umm ok, I don't see the point Obama never said he was a friend of the guy, yes he associated with him is that a crime? Does that make him evil? Does that make him stupid? Does that make him a terrorist? Does that make him a traitor? Does that make him a bad man? The answer to all of these is NO.

To me McCain and Palin are just desperate and so they chose to go negative even though they promised they would run a clean campaign void of this level of attacks. I would like to point out that one action never defines who a man is, what does define a man is all his actions weighed the negatives against the positives. Thus to say Obama is a bad choice because he is associated with a person who has a really negative chapter in his life is crazy.


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monty
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09 Oct 2008, 3:55 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
He has said "The Vietnamese didn't question my honor." This, in contrast to the US Senate Ethics Committee. If you'd bothered to read the link I posted re: Democratic counsel Robert Bennett, you'd have known this was a political hatchet job:



That is part of his problem - McCain can't see things for what they are - he has to compare everything to his POW days. A Congressional investigation is designed to question the conduct of the people it is investigating. Does that make the investigators worse than the Viet Cong? No. It means that McCain will insult the American system if it tries to hold him to the rules.

Hatchet job? It didn't do anything except wag fingers at people, and most of them were Democrats. Of course the lawyer representing the Democrats under investigation is going to question the legitimacy of the investigation. Maybe you believe Johny Cochran when he made up poems to prove OJ was a victim of the police? McCain was pallin around with people that squandered billions of dollars of other people's money, and when that was investigated, McCain intervened for his friend. Such conduct deserves scrutiny and criticism, even if it is not illegal.



Last edited by monty on 09 Oct 2008, 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

UncleBeer
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09 Oct 2008, 3:59 pm

philosopherBoi wrote:
Umm ok, I don't see the point Obama never said he was a friend of the guy, yes he associated with him is that a crime? Does that make him evil? Does that make him stupid? Does that make him a terrorist? Does that make him a traitor? Does that make him a bad man?

Perfect. Have you read any of YOUR thread, philosopherBoi? :roll:



UncleBeer
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09 Oct 2008, 4:01 pm

monty wrote:
Of course the lawyer representing the Democrats under investigation is going to question the legitimacy of the investigation.

And one would expect the Republican would be the last person he'd want to exonerate. But that's where the facts led him.

Eat crow.



monty
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09 Oct 2008, 4:23 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
Of course the lawyer representing the Democrats under investigation is going to question the legitimacy of the investigation.

And one would expect the Republican would be the last person he'd want to exonerate. But that's where the facts led him.

Eat crow.


Sorry, you are filtering the facts through your partisan lens. Sometimes a lawyer will do something to benefit a co-defendant he isn't representing if it helps his client; usually he doesn't care, and if necessary, he will throw the other guy under the bus if it gets his client off. Bennet's comments need to be considered in terms of his role in the adversarial process.



UncleBeer
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09 Oct 2008, 4:48 pm

monty wrote:
Bennet's comments need to be considered in terms of his role in the adversarial process.

Again, if you'd bothered to read the link I posted, you'd see that Bennett's comments are from his book published in 2008, almost 20 years after the investigation. Whatever political motivations he may have had linked to the case were long gone.