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Pepe
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22 Feb 2022, 10:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Now….how much DEATHS are there amongst the vaccinated vs unvaccinated?


Why are you asking me? :scratch:



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 10:22 pm

Im not asking you….



Pepe
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22 Feb 2022, 10:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Im not asking you….

Who are you asking? :scratch:



SpiceWolf
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22 Feb 2022, 10:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Now….how much DEATHS are there amongst the vaccinated vs unvaccinated?


https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectiou ... 220214.pdf
The link and figures were posted, but for the sake of everyone reading this, lets look at the deaths as well.

Quote:
53 of the dead, were triple vaccinated.
484 were double vaccinated.
27 were single vaccinated.
164 were unvaccinated.


164 unvaccinated dead.
564 Vaccinated dead.

So the vast majority of the deaths are the vaccinated as well.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 10:31 pm

SpiceWolf.

How about considering the hospitalization RATE amongst the various degrees of vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

I was in a maelstrom of COViD in NYC. Around New Years Day, we had about a 25% positivity rate. And I continued taking the train to work. No COViD for me. Im triply vaccinated.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 10:35 pm

How about considering the overall death rate?

About 9 times the people in Australia are vaccinated than unvaccinated.

If the death rate was higher in vaccinated people, there would have been about 1,500 deaths from amongst the vaccinated.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 10:39 pm

The vaccines certainly aren’t a panacea. I wish they prevented COViD. I wish they were more effective, in general.

But it is far better to have been vaccinated—the more shots the merrier.



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22 Feb 2022, 10:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
How about considering the overall death rate?

About 9 times the people in Australia are vaccinated than unvaccinated.

If the death rate was higher in vaccinated people, there would have been about 1,500 deaths from amongst the vaccinated.


Well lets be clear, if the vaccines worked, their would not be large numbers of people dying of covid with two vaccines.
Do you see hospitals full of Tetanus cases? No? that's because the Tetanus vaccine actually works, if you have the vaccine, you do not get Tetanus.

So now let's look at relative risk, rather than the hard numbers.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectiou ... 220214.pdf
Again, the figures are all there.

People who had no vaccine, roughly 90,000 infections of which 900 were admitted to hospital. or 1%
Their were very few people who only had one dose of the vaccine, because people who are willing to take it, generally
take both shots. But 6,618 infected people had only one dose and 175 of them were admitted.

So 1% of the unvaccinated went to hospital.
and 2.6% of the partially vaccinated, went to hospital.

Of those who had both shots(fully vaccinated).
c. 513,000 cases of which of which 5,962 were admitted to hospital. So 1.2% of fully vaccinated cases went to hospital.

Of those who received the booster.
c. 34,000 cases of which 457 went to hospital, so 1.4% of the triple vaxxed or boosted went to hospital.

Or to summarise :-
Quote:
1.0% of the unvaccinated were admitted to hospital.
2.6% of the partially vaccinated, were admitted to hospital.
1.2% of fully vaccinated cases were admitted to hospital.
1.4% of the triple vaxxed or boosted were admitted to hospital.


That's not a good look for the vaccine.



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22 Feb 2022, 10:55 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But it is far better to have been vaccinated—the more shots the merrier.


The data quoted above does not support that opinion.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 11:43 pm

Doctors in emergency rooms have no political stake. They are not making money off the vaccines. They are almost always saying that the severe illnesses and ventilations occur most prevalently upon the unvaccinated.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2022, 11:51 pm

According to “ourworldindata.org” :

The death rate amongst the unvaccinated is 12 per 100,000 in the USA.

Amongst people with 2 vaccinations: 2 per 100K.

Amongst people who had the booster: about 0.75 per 100K.



Pepe
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23 Feb 2022, 12:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
SpiceWolf.

How about considering the hospitalization RATE amongst the various degrees of vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

I was in a maelstrom of COViD in NYC. Around New Years Day, we had about a 25% positivity rate. And I continued taking the train to work. No COViD for me. Im triply vaccinated.


That was the delta strain?
Omicron is known to be much less dangerous.



Pepe
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23 Feb 2022, 12:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The vaccines certainly aren’t a panacea. I wish they prevented COViD. I wish they were more effective, in general.

But it is far better to have been vaccinated—the more shots the merrier.


Studies suggest that this is not so for children.
I don't remember the age range.



kraftiekortie
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23 Feb 2022, 12:06 am

It was omicron.

The death rate increased only slightly, though the positivity rate went from 2-3% to 25% in a couple of weeks.

Omicron is less serious….but serious enough….



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23 Feb 2022, 12:10 am

Sorry, all, I didn't mean to spawn an argument over the statistics. But it IS frustrating how difficult it is to find good information on the rates of severe illness or death compared to vaccination level. Not just how many shots, but how long ago the shots were, and which type of shot, and if any other safety protocols were being followed. I have seen decent data, but finding it again is feeling like looking for a needle in a haystack. Good and COMPLETE data should be easier to find. It would help the whole debate quite a lot.

In my corner of the world where most people have the Pfizer or Moderna shots, the health care professionals are universally saying that the shots are reducing hospitalizations and saving lives. But there is an expatriation date on that, and also a behavioral aspect: is someone engaging in more risky behavior because they have been vaccinated? All these elements get involved in the equation.

I should have kept my fingers still ... sorry.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Pepe
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23 Feb 2022, 12:28 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The vaccines certainly aren’t a panacea. I wish they prevented COViD. I wish they were more effective, in general.

But it is far better to have been vaccinated—the more shots the merrier.


Quote:
The C.D.C. Isn’t Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data It Collects

The agency has withheld critical data on boosters, hospitalizations and, until recently, wastewater analyses.

For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.

When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.

The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.

Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/heal ... -data.html