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How do you suppose we help would be school shooters?

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Spiderpig
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14 Oct 2015, 7:35 am

I don't suppose we'll help them in any way---I'm sure we won't.


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Jacoby
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14 Oct 2015, 9:05 am

0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.


They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.


To say they have a fraction of gun ownership is wrong, maybe less than the US but they are among the most armed societies in the world for sure especially when compared to places like the UK or Australia where most of the men outside the military would probably faint and fan themselves like some Southern belle at the sight of a firearm.The Swiss don't deal with the same social and economic issues that we do, this is where the issue lies not guns. If guns caused violence then the US would be the most violent place on Earth and it's not, outside our poorer urban areas it is probably safer than anywhere in the world, there are a lot of places in America where people don't have to lock their doors at night but I wouldn't be thinking about burglarizing someone for risk that they blow your brains out either. The places with the highest murder rates in this countries are our poor urban cities which enact the strictest gun control, Chicago and DC which are two of the most violent cities completely banned handguns until it was declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. Numbers don't add up.



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14 Oct 2015, 10:18 am

Fnord wrote:
Back to the topic ...

How are we supposed to "help would-be school shooters"?

Has anyone come up with an effective plan to identify them before they murder anyone?

Which is more important: One disturbed person's privacy and the right to bear arms, or the lives of innocent people and their right to an education?

As far as public schools go I wouldn't want to leave it up to school bureaucrats to sort them out. They'll be forcing students to undergo counseling/treatment based on ill defined characteristics and labeling them accordingly. Students from families with greater influence will be left alone to avoid "trouble" even if they are a risk. The whole thing will be grudgingly implemented without intent to do actual good, but only to cover asses. I can easily see it "weaponised" to use against students with non-related other issues just because.

Administrator: If you don't knock it off with cutting class I'll put you in for involuntary ARSV (At-Risk for School Violence or whatever they'll call it) treatment.
Student: But I'm not like that and everyone knows it.
Administrator: Doesn't matter. I'm the school ARSV monitor and I can put whoever I want in the program. I'll just say that the camo backpack you use makes you a potential risk.

Sorry, but it's the realist/cynic in me.


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Spiderpig
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14 Oct 2015, 1:16 pm

I wish people were so cynically open about their readiness to use their power against you, not giving a crap about any petty rules they'll break to use it. They usually manage to disguise it in such a way it seems perfectly legitimate, even if the logic doesn't add up, which doesn't matter, because everybody gets the hint and refrains from contesting what they say.


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15 Oct 2015, 3:11 am

Jacoby wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.


They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.


To say they have a fraction of gun ownership is wrong,


No it is not wrong. Gun ownership in Switzerland is half what it is in the US. If the US had half as many gun owners, through common sense gun control, keeping guns out of the hands of nut jobs who shouldn't have them in the first place, we would be just as safe as Switzerland. More guns = more gun violence. It's a fact, that nobody can not dispute.


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15 Oct 2015, 3:35 pm

Ah so we'very gone onto a discussion about gun control....

Not answering my question at all. Some of your replies were interesting though.


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15 Oct 2015, 3:45 pm

Guns are not the problem. The problem is within the society which creates individuals who want to cause such harm.



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15 Oct 2015, 4:00 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Guns are not the problem. The problem is within the society which creates individuals who want to cause such harm.


Much much agreed.


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15 Oct 2015, 5:21 pm

0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.


They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.


To say they have a fraction of gun ownership is wrong,


No it is not wrong. Gun ownership in Switzerland is half what it is in the US. If the US had half as many gun owners, through common sense gun control, keeping guns out of the hands of nut jobs who shouldn't have them in the first place, we would be just as safe as Switzerland. More guns = more gun violence. It's a fact, that nobody can not dispute.


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Jacoby
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15 Oct 2015, 5:22 pm

0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Switzerland is interesting because of its high rate of gun ownership and the fact they allow their citizens access to real full auto "assault rifles" as part of their militia system of which I believe all men are drafted into. The Swiss have little violence because they're not plagued by inequality or a drug war, that is America's real problem.


They have a fraction of the gun ownership, that the US does, because they control who can by them. If we could throw away the Second Amendment at adopt the exact same laws, the Swiss have, our mass shooting problem would be solved.


To say they have a fraction of gun ownership is wrong,


No it is not wrong. Gun ownership in Switzerland is half what it is in the US. If the US had half as many gun owners, through common sense gun control, keeping guns out of the hands of nut jobs who shouldn't have them in the first place, we would be just as safe as Switzerland. More guns = more gun violence. It's a fact, that nobody can not dispute.


Image


Correlation is not causation, none of those countries on are even on in the top 10 of as far as firearm related deaths including suicide so your idea that more guns = more gun violence doesn't work. In fact most of the countries that have sky high gun violence actually ban private gun ownership or make it extremely difficult to own like Jamaica or Mexico. Chicago and DC had handgun bans and were among the most violent gang ridden cities in America. It doesn't work here. The safest places in America are literally where everybody owns a gun.



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15 Oct 2015, 6:52 pm

0regonGuy wrote:
More guns = more gun violence. It's a fact, that nobody can not dispute.


You're right, nobody can not dispute it, along with your definition of "fact".


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15 Oct 2015, 6:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
More guns = more gun violence. It's a fact, that nobody can not dispute.


You're right, nobody can not dispute it, along with your definition of "fact".

Guns are here. There's no point disputing something that is.



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16 Oct 2015, 12:17 am

androbot01 wrote:
Guns are not the problem. The problem is within the society which creates individuals who want to cause such harm.


If that is true, then why is this problem unique to the US? Coincidentally the only country that allows rampant out of control gun ownership. Canada has all of the same societal problems the US does, but they don't have the guns and the gun violence.


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16 Oct 2015, 12:28 am

starfox wrote:
Ah so we'very gone onto a discussion about gun control....

Not answering my question at all. Some of your replies were interesting though.


I believe your question was: How do you suppose we help would be school shooters?

Answer: Keep the freaking guns out of the hands of those little homicidal maniacs. Unless by help you mean aid them to carry out their crime. In which case the answer would be to just stay the course. Which is what we seem to do anyway.


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16 Oct 2015, 4:11 pm

0regonGuy wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Guns are not the problem. The problem is within the society which creates individuals who want to cause such harm.


If that is true, then why is this problem unique to the US? Coincidentally the only country that allows rampant out of control gun ownership. Canada has all of the same societal problems the US does, but they don't have the guns and the gun violence.


Yeah but you can't get rid of guns. This can't be controlled by your government. And guns are a tool. You can take away the tool, but the problem is still there. Better to address and solve the problem because there's always other tools.



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19 Oct 2015, 7:11 pm

starfox wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Guns are not the problem. The problem is within the society which creates individuals who want to cause such harm.


Much much agreed.


Agreed. From a personal perspective, my alcoholic d-bag uncle has for some time now been trying to buy me a gun when he knows that I don't want one.


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