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Campin_Cat
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22 Dec 2016, 12:30 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Now, I, as someone who has experienced meltdowns, I know that I can control them PARTIALLY, in the sense that when I feel it beginning to happen (the red-hot feeling and white lights), I can control myself enough that I don't punch-out somebody's lights, for instance----but, I can't TOTALLY prevent it from STARTING, because it's a neurological switch, that makes it begin. When someone like me interacts with someone else, I don't generally know what about them / their actions / words, will trigger a meltdown----unless I already know the person always ticks-me-off, or whatever; then, I can usually try to stay-away from someone like that (thus, preventing it from happening, sometimes----but, even THEN, sometimes, just SEEING a person can trigger it----and, how does someone totally avoid that at work, for instance?).

This is exactly what I am talking about ... taking steps to cope with the condition.

Yes, but my Autism is not as severe----and, AFAIK, yours isn't either----and, I really think that plays a part, in how much someone can (is able to) control their responses.

Also, as Ezra pointed-out, someone with less-severe Autism can have MORE-severe meltdowns / shutdowns----and, in THAT instance, I feel age would probably come-into play; and, both of us have had WAAAAAY more years to learn coping strategies.




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22 Dec 2016, 12:32 pm

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
And I see you avoided answering my question regarding your expertise in this manner.

Do you really need to hear me whine about my experiences with meltdowns. It's pretty much the same as everyone else's experience with them. It is what it is. But I take steps to avoid situations which cause them and I have learned how to deescalate myself. But the biggest thing that has helped me is Seroquel. It leaves me feeling foggy all the time, but I prefer to have the control over my behaviour that these treatments allow.

If I attacked someone in the midst of a meltdown I would expect to be restrained and if I was injured by this process, it would be my fault and my responsibility to take action to prevent such an occurrence from being repeated.

Yes, but one can't always do that----as I said in my long post, regarding being at work----and it's understandable if Ezra can't avoid it, at school; and then, you throw-in a school bus (as in the OP), and that, ALONE, can cause some people to have a meltdown (and then, when someone is bothering someone else, how does one avoid them on a bus----it's not like they can ask to walk-down the hall to the bathroom, until they calm-down, or something like that).




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EzraS
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22 Dec 2016, 12:33 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I really find it sad that you guys need to attack my character to support your views. I do not lack human compassion and ZenDen I take offense at your suggesting that I do.


You seem to use that "attack my character" line a lot. You might want to consider that's a problem with you, and not all the others. Now I'm perfectly sympathetic to someone with autism encountering this sort of thing as a result of their autism. However, it's really up to you to not put yourself in such situations.



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22 Dec 2016, 12:36 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
And I see you avoided answering my question regarding your expertise in this manner.

Do you really need to hear me whine about my experiences with meltdowns. It's pretty much the same as everyone else's experience with them. It is what it is. But I take steps to avoid situations which cause them and I have learned how to deescalate myself. But the biggest thing that has helped me is Seroquel. It leaves me feeling foggy all the time, but I prefer to have the control over my behaviour that these treatments allow.

If I attacked someone in the midst of a meltdown I would expect to be restrained and if I was injured by this process, it would be my fault and my responsibility to take action to prevent such an occurrence from being repeated.

Yes, but one can't always do that----as I said in my long post, regarding being at work----and it's understandable if Ezra can't avoid it, at school; and then, you throw-in a school bus (as in the OP), and that, ALONE, can cause some people to have a meltdown (and then, when someone is bothering someone else, how does one avoid them on a bus----it's not like they can ask to walk-down the hall to the bathroom, until they calm-down, or something like that).


School buses can be sensory overload nightmares. I had one of my most severe meltdowns ever on a school bus once. But it was one where I curled up on the floor screaming, so I didn't need to be restrained.

I also want to add that the reason why people with autism are put on drugs for conditions entirely separate for autism such as Seroquel, is because there is no drug that actually does anything for autism itself.



Last edited by EzraS on 22 Dec 2016, 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

androbot01
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22 Dec 2016, 12:42 pm

EzraS wrote:
You seem to use that "attack my character" line a lot. You might want to consider that's a problem with you, and not all the others. Now I'm perfectly sympathetic to someone with autism encountering this sort of thing as a result of their autism. However, it's really up to you to not put yourself in such situations.

This is nothing ... but thanks for your concern.

EzraS wrote:
The biggest problem regarding such medications such as Quetiapine aka Seroquel which is actually an antipshchotic designed for the treatment of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, outside of the fact that they aren't designed to treat severe autistic meltdown, are the side effects and adverse effects that come from taking them as they are a medication to control brain chemistry, rather then the brain's neurology.

Seroquel may not be designed to to treat meltdown, but it sure as heck does. And gabapentin too, like I said.

I have never understood why people wouldn't want to take medication that effects the disabled brain chemistry when medication can offer such profound help.

Campin_Cat wrote:
...as I said in my long post, regarding being at work----and it's understandable if Ezra can't avoid it, at school; and then, you throw-in a school bus (as in the OP), and that, ALONE, can cause some people to have a meltdown (and then, when someone is bothering someone else, how does one avoid them on a bus----it's not like they can ask to walk-down the hall to the bathroom, until they calm-down, or something like that).


I've had to radically change my life in order to keep myself stable. I keep my exposure to triggers as minimal as possible.



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22 Dec 2016, 1:01 pm

EzraS wrote:
School buses can be sensory overload nightmares.

Oh, I know whatcha mean, as I take public transportation----and, more-than-once, I have been worried that I wasn't gonna be able to keep myself from beatin' the tar outta somebody.








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22 Dec 2016, 1:05 pm

Lets take your view that it was 100% the young mans fault he is dead irrespective of the techniques used to restrain him. Whatever potential joy and happiness were to come in his life and he would give to others is not going to happen due to his few minutes of faulty actions. That sucks, too bad, but it was his fault. I can not agree with that IF different actions by the staff could have prevented his death.

Now lets get back to real life, there is no public evidence the deceased had a meltdown just that he had an altercation with another student and at some point got violent with the staff when they came.

Why did staff see the need to restrain him and not and not the other student?

At what point did he get violent with the staff? When they came? While they were restraining him?

Did the deceased have a prior medical condition that was triggered by the excitment?

What did the staff do?

Are the staff trying to cover up something(s)?


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 22 Dec 2016, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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22 Dec 2016, 1:10 pm

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
You seem to use that "attack my character" line a lot. You might want to consider that's a problem with you, and not all the others. Now I'm perfectly sympathetic to someone with autism encountering this sort of thing as a result of their autism. However, it's really up to you to not put yourself in such situations.

This is nothing ... but thanks for your concern.

EzraS wrote:
The biggest problem regarding such medications such as Quetiapine aka Seroquel which is actually an antipshchotic designed for the treatment of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, outside of the fact that they aren't designed to treat severe autistic meltdown, are the side effects and adverse effects that come from taking them as they are a medication to control brain chemistry, rather then the brain's neurology.

Seroquel may not be designed to to treat meltdown, but it sure as heck does. And gabapentin too, like I said.


In your case as a 46 year old female yes. Not necessarily in the case of a male teenager. For instance are you taking the high level of testosterone that exists in an 18 year old male into consideration?

EzraS wrote:
I have never understood why people wouldn't want to take medication that effects the disabled brain chemistry when medication can offer such profound help.


Because for a lot of people they don't work. Or it leads to side effects that are unacceptable. Now in my case a brain chemistry medication did help me for a while, after going through a horrific side effect adjustment period. But eventually it started causing me to develop serious disinhibition, which caused me to become very reckless and aggressive.

Campin_Cat wrote:
...as I said in my long post, regarding being at work----and it's understandable if Ezra can't avoid it, at school; and then, you throw-in a school bus (as in the OP), and that, ALONE, can cause some people to have a meltdown (and then, when someone is bothering someone else, how does one avoid them on a bus----it's not like they can ask to walk-down the hall to the bathroom, until they calm-down, or something like that).


I don't know about your meltdowns, but there's no walking down a hall until I calm down for me regarding severe meltdowns. There is only, I suddenly completely flip out. Or I suddenly go catatonic. What's the drug I should be on for autistic catatonia? And what would be the result of being on such a drug when I have a violent meltdown? How does one simultaneously control both violent outbursts and catatonia at the same time through medication? There are so many variables with neurological disorders. Not to mention all the comorbids many autistic people have. Like what effect would gabapentin have on my comorbid developmental coordination disorder?

androbot01 wrote:
I've had to radically change my life in order to keep myself stable. I keep my exposure to triggers as minimal as possible.


That's great. But I'm curious, did you achieve all that by the time you were 18, like you seem to be suggesting the student who died should have?

It would be dandy if there was a universal way of treating autism. But there isn't. Not by a long shot.



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22 Dec 2016, 1:26 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Lets take your view that it was 100% the young mans fault he is dead irrespective of the techniques used to restrain him. Whatever potential joy and happiness were to come in his life and he would give to others is not not going to happen due to his few minutes of faulty actions. That sucks, too bad, but it was his fault. I can not agree with that IF different actions by the staff could have prevented his death.

If someone used improper restraints then they are culpable for that. But the autistic person is culpable too for his or her behaviour.

EzraS wrote:
In your case as a 46 year old female yes. Not necessarily in the case of a male teenager. For instance are you taking the high level of testosterone that exists in an 18 year old male into consideration?

Yeah, but I have menopause to deal with. Opposite hormones, both with powerful effects.

EzraS wrote:
That's great. But I'm curious, did you achieve all that by the time you were 18, like you seem to be suggesting the student who died should have?

I was a total mess when I was 18. And I've used up a few of my nine lives (if not all of them.)



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22 Dec 2016, 1:31 pm

EzraS wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
...as I said in my long post, regarding being at work----and it's understandable if Ezra can't avoid it, at school; and then, you throw-in a school bus (as in the OP), and that, ALONE, can cause some people to have a meltdown (and then, when someone is bothering someone else, how does one avoid them on a bus----it's not like they can ask to walk-down the hall to the bathroom, until they calm-down, or something like that).

I don't know about your meltdowns, but there's no walking down a hall until I calm down for me regarding severe meltdowns. There is only, I suddenly completely flip out. Or I suddenly go catatonic. What's the drug I should be on for autistic catatonia? And what would be the result of being on such a drug when I have a violent meltdown? How does one simultaneously control both violent outbursts and catatonia at the same time through medication? There are so many variables with neurological disorders. Not to mention all the comorbids many autistic people have. Like what effect would gabapentin have on my comorbid developmental coordination disorder?

Oh, did you think you were responding to someone else, here----cuz, I never said anything about drugs, and I don't KNOW anything about those drugs?




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22 Dec 2016, 1:38 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I was a total mess when I was 18.

Well then, why can't you give Ezra, and the boy in the OP, a little more le'eway?









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22 Dec 2016, 1:44 pm

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
In your case as a 46 year old female yes. Not necessarily in the case of a male teenager. For instance are you taking the high level of testosterone that exists in an 18 year old male into consideration?

Yeah, but I have menopause to deal with. Opposite hormones, both with powerful effects.


Then that makes what works on you all the more exclusive.

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That's great. But I'm curious, did you achieve all that by the time you were 18, like you seem to be suggesting the student who died should have?

I was a total mess when I was 18.


Then why are you suggesting the 18 year old who died, should be as responsible as you are now?



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22 Dec 2016, 4:40 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Well then, why can't you give Ezra, and the boy in the OP, a little more le'eway?

Why? There's nothing wrong with having your point of view challenged. Believe me, I know.

EzraS wrote:
Then why are you suggesting the 18 year old who died, should be as responsible as you are now?

We are all responsible for our behaviour regardless of age. Everyone screws up and does things that bring them bad consequences, it's part of being human. But that doesn't mean you don't try. And when the consequences are as grave as in the case presented in this thread, all the more reason to try to avoid them.



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22 Dec 2016, 7:56 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Well then, why can't you give Ezra, and the boy in the OP, a little more le'eway?

There's nothing wrong with having your point of view challenged.

Sure, I can appreciate that----but, then, why do you have to talk to Ezra like he's a 5-year-old idiot-boy?

androbot01 wrote:
I'm sure you will discover them in your journey through life.

.....and then, a few days ago:

androbot01 wrote:
Sweetie... This thread should be a valuable lesson to you regarding this.

I'm thinking you didn't mean for your statements to come-across, condescendingly----but, that's the way they "felt", to ME (and, apparently, Ezra feels the same way, because of the way he has responded to you----like, calling you "Pumpkin", after you called him "Sweetie").




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22 Dec 2016, 7:58 pm

androbot01 wrote:
We are all responsible for our behaviour regardless of age.

I can agree with this, to a certain extent----but, I really feel the severity of one's autism is a factor in how much they can control their behavior.







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androbot01
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22 Dec 2016, 8:11 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Well then, why can't you give Ezra, and the boy in the OP, a little more le'eway?

There's nothing wrong with having your point of view challenged.

Sure, I can appreciate that----but, then, why do you have to talk to Ezra like he's a 5-year-old idiot-boy?

androbot01 wrote:
I'm sure you will discover them in your journey through life.

.....and then, a few days ago:

androbot01 wrote:
Sweetie... This thread should be a valuable lesson to you regarding this.

I'm thinking you didn't mean for your statements to come-across, condescendingly----but, that's the way they "felt", to ME (and, apparently, Ezra feels the same way, because of the way he has responded to you----like, calling you "Pumpkin", after you called him "Sweetie").

Isn't that second quote regarding the "washed up" remark in the Celebrities' thread?

Anyway, Ezra can handle himself, as is evidenced by his "Pumpkin' retort.