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Daniel89
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29 Oct 2017, 8:22 pm

How exactly was it a fallacy? Trump made a joke about how rich and famous men have women throwing themselves at them and he said he can just "grab them by the p****" in no way does that mean he confessed to sexual assault.



Kraichgauer
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29 Oct 2017, 10:04 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Yeah something like that I'm sure.


If powerful men like Cosby and Weinstein can be guilty of sexual assault, why not Trump, who bragged about being a serial p*ssy grabber?


No he didn't he made a Joke about what rich guys can get away with and how women behave around them.


Exactly. He was making it clear consent was involved. But in order to villify, you have to disregard that part.

Apparently in liberalism a woman allowing a man to touch her vagina is like a Victorian age no no.


I'm sorry, but you have to perform mental gymnastics to get around the fact that Trump was talking about himself. And if anything, rather than being an explanation of getting consent to touch a woman's vagina, this is really about Trump's contempt for women, and use of his status as a rich celebrity to violate them regardless if they wanted it or not.

By very definition if they wanted it then its not a violation. These women are prostitutes they will let ugly old fat guys like Donald have sex with them for a chance at getting rich they are not representative of women in general.


There are plenty of women who say Trump's sexual advances were not welcome at all, but that didn't stop him.
And prostitutes? Bit of a low opinion of the women in question.


Women who are willing to have sex with Trump are attracted to what exactly? His dashing good looks? Charming personality? Witty intellect? No the only think he has going for him is money, these young attractive women only care about that I think most people would agree there is no difference between that and normal prostitution.


But he wasn't talking about women who'd have sex with him just for money, he was talking about women he'd randomly grab up-the-skirt. Consent on their part was nothing that Trump probably ever concerned himself about. It's a matter of respecting another person, rather than dehumanizing him or her. What if Trump was gay, and was randomly grabbing men's penises? Does that mean those men would be prostitutes for reacting with stunned silence? And just because a man or women feels pressured into a sexual situation by a powerful person doesn't mean it's voluntary.


If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


That depends; do you mean it a a threat?


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Daniel89
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29 Oct 2017, 10:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Yeah something like that I'm sure.


If powerful men like Cosby and Weinstein can be guilty of sexual assault, why not Trump, who bragged about being a serial p*ssy grabber?


No he didn't he made a Joke about what rich guys can get away with and how women behave around them.


Exactly. He was making it clear consent was involved. But in order to villify, you have to disregard that part.

Apparently in liberalism a woman allowing a man to touch her vagina is like a Victorian age no no.


I'm sorry, but you have to perform mental gymnastics to get around the fact that Trump was talking about himself. And if anything, rather than being an explanation of getting consent to touch a woman's vagina, this is really about Trump's contempt for women, and use of his status as a rich celebrity to violate them regardless if they wanted it or not.

By very definition if they wanted it then its not a violation. These women are prostitutes they will let ugly old fat guys like Donald have sex with them for a chance at getting rich they are not representative of women in general.


There are plenty of women who say Trump's sexual advances were not welcome at all, but that didn't stop him.
And prostitutes? Bit of a low opinion of the women in question.


Women who are willing to have sex with Trump are attracted to what exactly? His dashing good looks? Charming personality? Witty intellect? No the only think he has going for him is money, these young attractive women only care about that I think most people would agree there is no difference between that and normal prostitution.


But he wasn't talking about women who'd have sex with him just for money, he was talking about women he'd randomly grab up-the-skirt. Consent on their part was nothing that Trump probably ever concerned himself about. It's a matter of respecting another person, rather than dehumanizing him or her. What if Trump was gay, and was randomly grabbing men's penises? Does that mean those men would be prostitutes for reacting with stunned silence? And just because a man or women feels pressured into a sexual situation by a powerful person doesn't mean it's voluntary.


If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


That depends; do you mean it a a threat?


Nope people often say obscene things as part of a joke that doesn't mean they actually believe it.



EzraS
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29 Oct 2017, 10:12 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
How exactly was it a fallacy? Trump made a joke about how rich and famous men have women throwing themselves at them and he said he can just "grab them by the p****" in no way does that mean he confessed to sexual assault.


I agree. Trump was making an anicdotal comment regarding the perks of being a celebrity. In this case willingly letting a celebrity get to second base as an example. The whole point of the coment was how people acquiesce to celebrities.



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29 Oct 2017, 10:51 pm

B19 wrote:
I can understand that some males here (not many) genuinely don't/can't understand, because of their disability


The way my autism affects my appraisal of the situation is, that I view it with dispassionate objectivity.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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30 Oct 2017, 12:39 am

Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.



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30 Oct 2017, 12:56 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out of the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.



Last edited by EzraS on 30 Oct 2017, 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Oct 2017, 12:59 am

EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


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EzraS
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30 Oct 2017, 1:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


You're talking about physical evedence. So what real life physical evedence exists to match your analogy?



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30 Oct 2017, 1:12 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


You're talking about physical evedence. So what real life physical evedence exists to match your analogy?


We're talking about a hypothetical situation here... unless you know something about decapitated bodies that the rest of us don't! :o


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EzraS
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30 Oct 2017, 1:20 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


You're talking about physical evedence. So what real life physical evedence exists to match your analogy?


We're talking about a hypothetical situation here... unless you know something about decapitated bodies that the rest of us don't! :o


No you used the analogy of decapitated bodies to represent physical evedence. I asked what actual physical evedence exists in conjunction with the analogy.

An honest answer from you would be "none". And then in honesty you'd admit that your analogy was inapplicable.



cyberdad
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30 Oct 2017, 1:42 am

Daniel89 wrote:
How exactly was it a fallacy? Trump made a joke about how rich and famous men have women throwing themselves at them and he said he can just "grab them by the p****" in no way does that mean he confessed to sexual assault.


Curious coincidence he has 16 women making claims against him and has links to people who have sexually assaulted young women before. He's also on the record heaping praise on known paedophiles.

Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein was charged with soliciting underaged girls for sex for which he was jailed.
Epstein, 64, was a regular for several years at Trump's Mar-a-Lago. Testimony in a prior court case indicated that Trump flew at least once on one of the planes Epstein owned and Trump’s phone numbers were in Epstein’s personal phone directory.

Trump has also indicated publicly he knew of Epstein’s interest in “younger” women, although he never suggested the financier crossed any legal lines. “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,’’ Trump told New York Magazine back in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”



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30 Oct 2017, 1:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
How exactly was it a fallacy? Trump made a joke about how rich and famous men have women throwing themselves at them and he said he can just "grab them by the p****" in no way does that mean he confessed to sexual assault.


Curious coincidence he has 16 women making claims against him and has links to people who have sexually assaulted young women before. He's also on the record heaping praise on known paedophiles.

Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein was charged with soliciting underaged girls for sex for which he was jailed.
Epstein, 64, was a regular for several years at Trump's Mar-a-Lago. Testimony in a prior court case indicated that Trump flew at least once on one of the planes Epstein owned and Trump’s phone numbers were in Epstein’s personal phone directory.

Trump has also indicated publicly he knew of Epstein’s interest in “younger” women, although he never suggested the financier crossed any legal lines. “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,’’ Trump told New York Magazine back in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”


16 women suddenly appearing right after the tape was released during the campaign, was far more suspicious than coincidental. And actually it was more like hundreds of people making the claim of "oh hey Trump molested me too!" on social media.

The rest of your post is circumstantial insinuation.



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30 Oct 2017, 6:02 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


You're talking about physical evedence. So what real life physical evedence exists to match your analogy?


We're talking about a hypothetical situation here... unless you know something about decapitated bodies that the rest of us don't! :o


No you used the analogy of decapitated bodies to represent physical evedence. I asked what actual physical evedence exists in conjunction with the analogy.

An honest answer from you would be "none". And then in honesty you'd admit that your analogy was inapplicable.


Are we talking about decapitated bodies, or Trump's serial sexual assault?


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EzraS
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30 Oct 2017, 6:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
If I made a joke about cutting off people's heads that doesn't mean I have actually cut off anyone's head or supporting cutting off people's heads.


It might not on it's own, but if multiple witnesses claimed to have seen you cutting off several people's heads then suddenly that "joke" you made would be highly suspicious. It would seem like a confession, then.


If several witnesses suddenly came out if the woodwork after the statement was made, they're the ones I'd find suspicious.


Even if a bunch of decapitated corpses were constantly being found?


You're talking about physical evedence. So what real life physical evedence exists to match your analogy?


We're talking about a hypothetical situation here... unless you know something about decapitated bodies that the rest of us don't! :o


No you used the analogy of decapitated bodies to represent physical evedence. I asked what actual physical evedence exists in conjunction with the analogy.

An honest answer from you would be "none". And then in honesty you'd admit that your analogy was inapplicable.


Are we talking about decapitated bodies, or Trump's serial sexual assault?


It's your red herring, you tell me.



Daniel89
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30 Oct 2017, 7:43 am

cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
How exactly was it a fallacy? Trump made a joke about how rich and famous men have women throwing themselves at them and he said he can just "grab them by the p****" in no way does that mean he confessed to sexual assault.


Curious coincidence he has 16 women making claims against him and has links to people who have sexually assaulted young women before. He's also on the record heaping praise on known paedophiles.

Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein was charged with soliciting underaged girls for sex for which he was jailed.
Epstein, 64, was a regular for several years at Trump's Mar-a-Lago. Testimony in a prior court case indicated that Trump flew at least once on one of the planes Epstein owned and Trump’s phone numbers were in Epstein’s personal phone directory.

Trump has also indicated publicly he knew of Epstein’s interest in “younger” women, although he never suggested the financier crossed any legal lines. “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,’’ Trump told New York Magazine back in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”


I am not defending Trump or say he did or did not do anything just that his grab her by the p**** comment is not a confession.