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cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 6:42 pm

KMCIURA wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There should be some warning sent out to the police if a random person purchases chemicals associated with suicides or covering up a murder.

I mean if a person buys tubs of hydrochloric acid, garbage bags and a chainsaw then that should also trigger concern.


Chainsaw? Worst idea ever.

-Makes noise, so unless you are in some isolated cottage in the woods, this can result in your neighbours telling the police about it when questioned, which will point them at you.

-Too bulky to quickly and safely dispose of, way too many moving and small parts with hard to reach places to efficiently clean it from blood and traces of DNA

-Would make a lot of mess, as flesh is softer than wood and pieces would be ripped off it, flying all over the room, sticking to walls and so on. And blood spraying everywhere. A lot of clean-up to do afterwards!

Seriously, if someone would want to go extra fancy, I guess surgical saw is the answer, but most convenient thing is hacksaw - cheap, easily found, buying it is not suspicious at all, a wide range of blades are available. Yup, takes more time than power tools, but at the same time, saves a lot of mess!

Before anyone asks, I simply worked at butchery and meat processing plant for a while. We've used butcher's meat and bone saws which are like oversized hacksaws. Using power tools on a dead animal is a bad idea, it is even dumber if it wasn't bled out first.


A lot of serial killers/murderers chop up their victims so perhaps a meat cleaver or saw?



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08 Feb 2022, 6:49 pm

You don’t cut through the bones, you cut where the joints are.And don’t forget the lime.


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KMCIURA
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08 Feb 2022, 7:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:
KMCIURA wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There should be some warning sent out to the police if a random person purchases chemicals associated with suicides or covering up a murder.

I mean if a person buys tubs of hydrochloric acid, garbage bags and a chainsaw then that should also trigger concern.


Chainsaw? Worst idea ever.

-Makes noise, so unless you are in some isolated cottage in the woods, this can result in your neighbours telling the police about it when questioned, which will point them at you.

-Too bulky to quickly and safely dispose of, way too many moving and small parts with hard to reach places to efficiently clean it from blood and traces of DNA

-Would make a lot of mess, as flesh is softer than wood and pieces would be ripped off it, flying all over the room, sticking to walls and so on. And blood spraying everywhere. A lot of clean-up to do afterwards!

Seriously, if someone would want to go extra fancy, I guess surgical saw is the answer, but most convenient thing is hacksaw - cheap, easily found, buying it is not suspicious at all, a wide range of blades are available. Yup, takes more time than power tools, but at the same time, saves a lot of mess!

Before anyone asks, I simply worked at butchery and meat processing plant for a while. We've used butcher's meat and bone saws which are like oversized hacksaws. Using power tools on a dead animal is a bad idea, it is even dumber if it wasn't bled out first.


A lot of serial killers/murderers chop up their victims so perhaps a meat cleaver or saw?


It is extremely hard to cut through thick bone with a cleaver. Or even the muscle in post-mortem phase, because they "lock" - this is why carcasses of animals are hanged on hooks, not just put on the floor, so gravity can relax this tension a bit. When it comes to taking animal apart, butcher's knifes must be literally sharpened every ten minutes or so, because they get dull from cutting through tense muscles. And these are so sharp that you need to wear butcher chain mail glove at least on hand in which you do not hold the knife, so you won't cut off your fingers clean.

Then, meat needs to be massaged in special machines looking like concrete mixers to make it tender. Or injected with some pickling salts. Often both. People think that a body gets floppy after death, but it is not true - the default state of muscles is constricted and energy (ATP) is expelled to switch between this and relaxed (in reality, stretched) state. Normally, in dead animals, muscles get naturally relaxed and soft only after decomposition process fully kicks in. Thus, meat cleaver is only really useful after all of earlier processing has already been done, i.e. if you have a piece of loin to cut into smaller chunks.

I stand by my choice of hacksaw. Cheap, convenient, you can get many blades cheap so it is easy to replace one after it gets dull or breaks ;)



cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 8:30 pm

Potential serial killers on WP taking notes....was that a hacksaw KMCIURA ?



Matrix Glitch
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09 Feb 2022, 2:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
KMCIURA wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There should be some warning sent out to the police if a random person purchases chemicals associated with suicides or covering up a murder.

I mean if a person buys tubs of hydrochloric acid, garbage bags and a chainsaw then that should also trigger concern.


Chainsaw? Worst idea ever.

-Makes noise, so unless you are in some isolated cottage in the woods, this can result in your neighbours telling the police about it when questioned, which will point them at you.

-Too bulky to quickly and safely dispose of, way too many moving and small parts with hard to reach places to efficiently clean it from blood and traces of DNA

-Would make a lot of mess, as flesh is softer than wood and pieces would be ripped off it, flying all over the room, sticking to walls and so on. And blood spraying everywhere. A lot of clean-up to do afterwards!

Seriously, if someone would want to go extra fancy, I guess surgical saw is the answer, but most convenient thing is hacksaw - cheap, easily found, buying it is not suspicious at all, a wide range of blades are available. Yup, takes more time than power tools, but at the same time, saves a lot of mess!

Before anyone asks, I simply worked at butchery and meat processing plant for a while. We've used butcher's meat and bone saws which are like oversized hacksaws. Using power tools on a dead animal is a bad idea, it is even dumber if it wasn't bled out first.


A lot of serial killers/murderers chop up their victims so perhaps a meat cleaver or saw?


On a MrBallen video I heard about someone being cut up with an electric carving knife.

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&s ... y=mrballen



naturalplastic
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09 Feb 2022, 3:30 am

Just put your victim in the deep freeze so they get stiff, and then... feed em through the woodchipper. Like that guy really did some years ago. Then sprinkle the bits around a river for the fish to eat up. :D



cyberdad
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09 Feb 2022, 4:08 am

Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.



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09 Feb 2022, 4:21 am

You guys are overthinking this stuff, I spent several years breaking down hogs, lambs, and goats for a high end butcher shop, all you really need is a sharp knife and knowledge of how joints work to break down even a large animal, a saw (think a tree trimming saw not a chainsaw) is only necessary for certain cuts that cross bone. Even the cleaver doesn't get much use in butchery, I used mine far more often doing stuff like chickens and turkeys where I sometimes wanted to crack a bone or take off wingtips, 90% of the whole animal stuff was done with a 6 inch flexible boning knife that was sharpened religiously, and the other cuts were only done with a larger knife in order to make straighter cuts for steaks and chops, not because a big knife was needed.


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09 Feb 2022, 4:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.

You feed them to the hogs.Then sell the hogs.


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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2022, 6:12 am

Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.

You feed them to the hogs.Then sell the hogs.


Hey Mom, I found a tooth and fingernail in my pork chop



KMCIURA
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09 Feb 2022, 6:16 am

Dox47 wrote:
You guys are overthinking this stuff, I spent several years breaking down hogs, lambs, and goats for a high end butcher shop, all you really need is a sharp knife and knowledge of how joints work to break down even a large animal, a saw (think a tree trimming saw not a chainsaw) is only necessary for certain cuts that cross bone. Even the cleaver doesn't get much use in butchery, I used mine far more often doing stuff like chickens and turkeys where I sometimes wanted to crack a bone or take off wingtips, 90% of the whole animal stuff was done with a 6 inch flexible boning knife that was sharpened religiously, and the other cuts were only done with a larger knife in order to make straighter cuts for steaks and chops, not because a big knife was needed.


I do agree that cutting joint does work, but if one wants to dispose of the body, breaking it down to even smaller chunks is more convenient.



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09 Feb 2022, 9:31 am

cyberdad wrote:
Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.
Caustic baths.  Most caustic substances can be purchased without arousing suspicion, and even common lye (NaOH) is sold in grocery stores.

The tissues (especially the fatty parts) become a soap-like substance, and the solid parts eventually dissolve and crumble.  All that is left are really solid parts, like tooth enamel, dental crowns, pacemakers, and other medical implants.  Most of the remains can be flushed down the drain after the alkalinity has been neutralized.

Several police procedurals on TV have covered this in recent years.



cyberdad
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09 Feb 2022, 3:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.
Caustic baths.  Most caustic substances can be purchased without arousing suspicion, and even common lye (NaOH) is sold in grocery stores.

The tissues (especially the fatty parts) become a soap-like substance, and the solid parts eventually dissolve and crumble.  All that is left are really solid parts, like tooth enamel, dental crowns, pacemakers, and other medical implants.  Most of the remains can be flushed down the drain after the alkalinity has been neutralized.

Several police procedurals on TV have covered this in recent years.


hmmmm, you seem quite familiar with this procedure Fnord...I have my eye on you



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10 Feb 2022, 5:52 am

Misslizard wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
when i was in the south, i found people i knew strongly advising me to hide my natural self, tuck my hair up under my hat, when going out. i did not do that once and i was stared at. still like the 1950s down there.

It’s not like that now.No one even notices long hair anymore.Even the old codgers are smoking doobies now.

at least in the part of arizona i was in, it was still like that.



QuantumChemist
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10 Feb 2022, 9:35 am

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Popular choice is acid baths or incinerators. No evidence left.
Caustic baths.  Most caustic substances can be purchased without arousing suspicion, and even common lye (NaOH) is sold in grocery stores.

The tissues (especially the fatty parts) become a soap-like substance, and the solid parts eventually dissolve and crumble.  All that is left are really solid parts, like tooth enamel, dental crowns, pacemakers, and other medical implants.  Most of the remains can be flushed down the drain after the alkalinity has been neutralized.

Several police procedurals on TV have covered this in recent years.


Yes, you can turn human tissue into soap using lye (or other strong bases). I had a really dumb student once who used to pick KOH (potassium hydroxide) pellets up with his hand while measuring them. His hand became slick and started to hurt each time. As I told him over and over again to wear gloves, he still had to literally learn about human soap the hard way.



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10 Feb 2022, 10:53 am

auntblabby wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
when i was in the south, i found people i knew strongly advising me to hide my natural self, tuck my hair up under my hat, when going out. i did not do that once and i was stared at. still like the 1950s down there.

It’s not like that now.No one even notices long hair anymore.Even the old codgers are smoking doobies now.

at least in the part of arizona i was in, it was still like that.

Arizona isn’t the South.


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