A law-abiding responsible gun owner strikes again.

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First off- don't use the word always.. because that's far from the truth in this matter.

Secondly- yes its the people that use the guns that is the problem.. but when there is such crappy laws in place, what exactly can be done? So many shootings happen all the time, and politicians act like "something needs to be done" but nothing ever seems to happen.

Let's take Chicago as a recent example- over the weekend, around 60 people were shot. Watch as it gets headlines all over the place, but no one has the guts to make any laws to gets guns out of the hands of criminals.

I strongly feel people that have been in jail for certain offenses shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Same goes for "suspicious people"- do not fly list (and so on). If the FBI is investigating them, there is a high chance they likely did something in the past or are planning something.

It shouldn't be a matter of "lets just wait to see what happens" anymore. Yes I do realize many criminals wont get guns legally- but when so many gun shops don't even do background checks and hell.. don't even have a long waiting period to buy the gun.. thats a big issue. Plus let's not forget certain gun shows where people can easily buy a gun without a background check as well.

How many more innocent people need to be shot and/or killed for the USA to finally wake up and DO SOMETHING? It's beyond sickening at this point. The gun nuts can whine all they want about "how they have the right to own guns", but honestly- if you've done nothing wrong, then the laws wont hurt you. You can wait a few more days to get a precious new gun that you likely don't need anyway. Sorry, not trying to sound rude- just stating my view on the matter. There's people that "collect" guns that are likely innocent but there's still too many that are bad and need to be stopped.

You say: "How many more innocent people need to be shot and/or killed for the USA to finally wake up and DO SOMETHING?"
A very good question without a visible answer.

For example lets take Chicago...your example...and see how we could finally "DO" something as you say.
Of the 60 people who were shot: This is a comment by Chicago police:

"Escalante says the majority of the violence is gang-related".......

So now we know gangs have guns, gangs fight with other gangs and they kill each other. This seems spelled out in every large city. So how would you suggest going about removing these guns from their owners? Mass attacks and confiscation throughout the city's south and west sides?

Everyone is frustrated: Honest citizens don't want their guns confiscated...and they have a decision by SCOTUS that they have a Constitutional Right to own (legal) weapons for personal protection.

So therefor we now have people entitled to own guns who also use them illegally, and who have Constitutionally protected rights against illegal search and seizure...both rights protected by our Constitution. WHAT DO YOU DO????

Which leads us back to your second point: "Secondly- yes its the people that use the guns that is the problem.. "

But, as usual, we ignore the very VERY hard questions. How do we eliminate the poverty that drives these people to crime in the first place? How do we supply jobs so little kids growing up in the ghetto will see a real, achievable paths to success in life besides drug money and associated crime?

It's taken us over 150 years to create the mess we're in now. There is no other sane solution to the problem besides doing the right thing and raising the socio-economic level of these oppressed minorities....especially the level of education....it's a shame what segregation produces. But it's an uphill battle as the people that control the majority of money and influence aren't interested in sharing with the masses, especially if those "masses" are a different color.

The other issue driving gun deaths is mental illness and there has been no move by either party to properly address this issue.....no wonder an oddball like Trump can get a foothold...he makes headlines when speaking out about the things other politicians would like to (and have us) ignore.

Until these issues are addressed by the government there will be little change in gun violence...

I'm mostly interested in restricting gun access to terrorists, domestic abusers, gang members, and violent criminals. Might as well be specific about what we are trying to restrict. I'm not interested in discriminating agaist non-violent mentally ill or your local pot dealer who got a few days in prison. If we take away guns from the mentally ill we might as well just take guns away from everybody. Lol.

Trouble is those are hardest class to restrict (except maybe the DV guy who will sadly need a less convenient way to off his ball and chain. House full of guns, yet my x poisoned me twice and drowned me. Not as much media coverage of the many women that die each day by the hand of one that claims affections)

Criminal know where to get illegal guns, usually Mexico. Through the illegals here at the flea markets I could arm a private mercenary force if I have the cash. A 9mm carbine is like $300, no questions asked.Hi power repeating rifles, actual retired M16 and AKs; AR-15, Revolvers, explosive ordnance. They change locations, and like bootleggers are not even turned in, not even by the most Mexican hating Dixiecrat Klansmen. Only way actual gun bans could work is boot to door house searches like looking for insurgents in Mosul. Martial Law and suspended rights until certainty of clean up AND TIGHT CLOSED BORDERS to prevent retraffic of illegal supply.

But a govt under that kind of power trip WILL do more no matter who has the white house.
That is why the Gun Free cities are hi crime still. The false security that criminals were suddenly helpless and somehow were part of the gun turn in events ...lel

Well, we have laws even though we knew people will break them.

The Orlando shooter did not order body armor because it is was not conveniently available. Could he have gotten body armor if he had been more ambitious/resourceful? Well, yeah, obviously. But in reality the guy was kind of lazy and just settled on no body armor. That's life. It makes no sense to sell guns to a known terrorist or violent person. This is jsut common sense. If they get their guns anyways, well, whatever, that's life.

I don't agree. The false security has nothing to do with it. Some areas simply have more criminal activity than others. And these areas are always going to have more criminal activity regardless of gun control unless the roots of the problem are addressed.

Gangs and drug cartels are a major problem. They are more dangerous than ISIS overall.

Ending the drug war would have a bigger impact on cartels and trafficking than any border security measure we could take up.

"Ending the drug war....."

So at this time there are armed citizens in Chicago...many are gang/cartel members/stooges and many of these people RELY on drug money to feed their families and support their life style.

What will you replace their illegal drug money with? They still have guns..but no education or other resources to use...what should/can they do....robbery?????...home invasion?????

This is too out of hand to change overnight...but there's only one solution I can see: EDUCATION

By giving inner city schools the same funding white schools get (and top notch teachers), can lead to jobs/careers/normal family life...for thousands doomed to crime and poverty. I frankly don't see any other way to permanent change, but it's one I doubt your mayor and cronies will implement (just guessing but lived there 40 years).

It's education hand-in-hand with equal opportunity that could make this country great again (pun intended).

ZenDen,

I can support other measures as well. Of course we need better education, you won't hear me disagree with that. And when I say end the drug war I don't mean just legalize everything. It also means shifting our attitudes towards the people involved with drugs. Instead of spending so much on law enforcement to go after drugs we can instead spend money on youth programs that give kids a way off the streets. We should also provide much better access to drug treatment centers.

Ending the drug war would cut down a major pillar in the Mexican cartels funding. They would no longer be able to make a profit smuggling illegal drugs over the border. If we look back on prohibition than we can clearly see how having a black market increases the amount of violence.

And to be clear. This should all happen over time. Nothing in a democracy happens overnight.

By the way it's actually our govenor here that doesn't want to fund Chicago schools properly. He's having a huge fight with the mayor over this.

Hi Lukeda420,
You said:
I can support other measures as well. Of course we need better education, you won't hear me disagree with that. And when I say end the drug war I don't mean just legalize everything. It also means shifting our attitudes towards the people involved with drugs. Instead of spending so much on law enforcement to go after drugs we can instead spend money on youth programs that give kids a way off the streets. We should also provide much better access to drug treatment centers.

I've got nothing against youth programs but what is needed is overall proper schooling. Treatment centers are fine but they don't treat the cause just the symptoms, but good anyway. But all of these are what the city always offered: Band-aids.

Ending the drug war would cut down a major pillar in the Mexican cartels funding. They would no longer be able to make a profit smuggling illegal drugs over the border. If we look back on prohibition than we can clearly see how having a black market increases the amount of violence.

As I mentioned, for these inner city people selling drugs is their only source of income. How will you replace it? Not an easy question to answer, is it?

And to be clear. This should all happen over time. Nothing in a democracy happens overnight. I'd guess, at the very best estimate, and with full government cooperation, we would be lucky to see major/significant change in two generations.

By the way it's actually our govenor here that doesn't want to fund Chicago schools properly. He's having a huge fight with the mayor over this.

I don't know much about the current governor except that when I lived there they generally were scoundrels, with a few good apples. Endless fighting just stalls any action...as usual.

A lot of these issues would be better handled if we just stop spending money locking up non violent people and instead focused more on other solutions. I agree it's not an easy issue but the way we're doing it now isn't working. I don't actually think there is much of a disagreement between us on this. I know many people rely on selling drugs but it is also a huge influence on our violence problem so something has to be done.

About Chicago,
Our governor has an approval rating in the 30's, the mayor is a corporate Democrat that I really don't like. We have some good people out here but a hell of a lot of corruption too.

Hi Lukeda

A lot of these issues would be better handled if we just stop spending money locking up non violent people and instead focused more on other solutions. I agree it's not an easy issue but the way we're doing it now isn't working. I don't actually think there is much of a disagreement between us on this. I know many people rely on selling drugs but it is also a huge influence on our violence problem so something has to be done.

I agree something should be done...but what? It doesn't seem any efforts at public education about drugs has slowed their use..SO.. if you have people willing to spend money on cocaine, heroin, grass there will always be people to supply what they want. I think it all goes back to making different cultures more equally educated, as the first step "up the ladder." It's only through something I think is called a "sea change" that anything besides token progress will be made.

About Chicago,
Our governor has an approval rating in the 30's, the mayor is a corporate Democrat that I really don't like. We have some good people out here but a hell of a lot of corruption too.[/quote]

And these are the entrenched powers that must be depended on to supply our salvation??? No one should hold their breath until things change; it doesn't look good.

And these are the entrenched powers that must be depended on to supply our salvation??? No one should hold their breath until things change; it doesn't look good.[/quote]

Actually our governor is n his first time and was never in elected office before. And we have Rahm Emmanuel who's only on his second. Our speaker of the house has been there for three decades now so again it's kind of a mixed bag.

There's a quote that says government is the employer of last resort. One idea would be to funnel some of the money into public works and infrastructure projects and hire second chancers and others people who are otherwise hard to employ. We could also expand the safety net so that people won't have to worry so much. The last thing I can think of right now would be to increase the minimum wage. It's been raised severs times since inception and the results have always been positive. I believe that if a person is working full time then they should be able to support themselves without assistance. This is currently not the case. One of my friends was working full time at a food processing plant and she was paid so little that she qualified for food stamps. When those are the kind of jobs available then it's no wonder why people turn to selling drugs.

We'll never be able to stop people from using drugs no matter what we do but I think that those people are better helped by the medical sector rather than law enforcement. And education does have an effect. We've decreased use of cigarettes tremendously over the years through education.

Hi Lukeda,
You said:

There's a quote that says government is the employer of last resort. One idea would be to funnel some of the money into public works and infrastructure projects and hire second chancers and others people who are otherwise hard to employ. We could also expand the safety net so that people won't have to worry so much. The last thing I can think of right now would be to increase the minimum wage. It's been raised severs times since inception and the results have always been positive. I believe that if a person is working full time then they should be able to support themselves without assistance. This is currently not the case. One of my friends was working full time at a food processing plant and she was paid so little that she qualified for food stamps. When those are the kind of jobs available then it's no wonder why people turn to selling drugs.

Good ideas. And especially on the minimum wage I agree 100%. Out here in our semi-rural area (no cows IN town) our school's food program feeds kids that need it, and their families too. The program extends right through the summer as well. Right now over 50% of families qualify. If it's up to big corporations this percentage of needy families will increase. I'm sure these corporations appreciate the money we remove from the school/education/tax budget to feed their workers and their families.

We'll never be able to stop people from using drugs no matter what we do but I think that those people are better helped by the medical sector rather than law enforcement. And education does have an effect. We've decreased use of cigarettes tremendously over the years through education.[/quote]

You're right, education will have an effect, eventually. But I wonder how much decrease in smoking is due to electronic cigarettes? Out here the government is putting pressure on these "vape" stores. If they shut them down I wonder how many folks will go back to tobacco?

We'll never be able to stop people from using drugs no matter what we do but I think that those people are better helped by the medical sector rather than law enforcement.

The only thing I might add would be to add "mental/" before your "medical sector" suggestion....Most of these "heavy" drug users has been, in my experience, very F___ed up; big time. But, at least out here, there is almost no reason to incarcerate people for mental health. Happy Ronnie Reagan decided to let everybody "roam free" so now we also feed the homeless, at our expense.

Hope things are better in the burbs out there. I've lived in some around Chicago I liked.