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Prof_Pretorius
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14 Nov 2012, 4:45 pm

This just in....

An Israeli airstrike has killed the leader of Hamas, and it looks like out and out war with Gaza. Drudge is tying this to Iran, which could be very bad news indeed.

"Hamas’s military apparatus is tied to Iran, says Jonathan Schanzer, vice president of research at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. “Anyone who is part of the Qassam Brigades gets Iranian training.” Schanzer believes that today’s operations against Hamas positions in Gaza are likely related to last month’s bombing of a factory in Sudan, believed to have been the work of the Israeli military." (From The Weekly Standard)

Egypt is also planning on getting involved.
Today, Egypt’s Freedom and Justice Party, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood – a party formerly headed by current President Mohammed Morsi – announced that Egypt would get involved if Israel continued to kill terrorists in the Gaza Strip. Such Israeli action, said the party, would prompt “swift Arab and international action to stop the massacres.” The party also warned that Israel “must take into account the changes in the Arab region and especially Egypt … [Egypt] will not allow the Palestinians to be subjected to Israeli aggression, as in the past.” (From Breitbart.)


http://freebeacon.com/its-war/


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redrobin62
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14 Nov 2012, 5:14 pm

Sad day for the middle east.



Last edited by redrobin62 on 14 Nov 2012, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CosmicRuss
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14 Nov 2012, 5:22 pm

Hamas said Israel "had opened the gates of hell".

Let's hope not eh?


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Fnord
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14 Nov 2012, 5:31 pm

37 days, and counting...


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14 Nov 2012, 6:20 pm

He was the chief of Hamas' military wing, but calling him "the leader of Hamas" seems to be stretching it a little. :roll:

I think an Egyptian invasion is highly unlikely, Morsi knows he would have little chance in a war and that a defeat of any sort would end his career and maybe even that of his organization, he's just posturing for a domestic audience.



Prof_Pretorius
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14 Nov 2012, 6:33 pm

Just heard that the Israelis are calling up their Army reservists, which means they are seriously going to invade the Gaza strip.

19:20 GMT: People in Gaza describe how ships have been shelling the ground, they can hear bombs dropping, F16s flying above them all day & drones buzzing overhead, according to tweets from inside Gaza.

19:15 GMT: Hamas has announced a state of emergency in Gaza, and evacuated all its security buildings, according to bloggers in Gaza.


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CosmicRuss
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14 Nov 2012, 6:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
37 days, and counting...
I hope not, I'm looking forward to my birthday on the 22nd!


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14 Nov 2012, 9:21 pm

there's a live feed here:
http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/
http://english.al-akhbar.com/live-event ... s-war-gaza

Quote:
Just heard that the Israelis are calling up their Army reservists, which means they are seriously going to invade the Gaza strip.

israel has indicated that it will be pursing a ground operation.
Quote:
12:14am
The Gaza-based Palestine Telegraph reports that the Israeli Air Force has dropped thousands of leaflets threatening an invasion and full-scale war.

that snippet its from al-akhbar and there are other sources that say the same thing. this is operation cast lead all over again. already the death count is high and this includes children and babies and medical supplies are running low already.
by coincidence there was a protest planned in sydney for palestine today and in the last few hours the number of people attending has jumped by 40 people or something(6 in the last 15minutes). people are angry and they should be.


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14 Nov 2012, 9:32 pm

I sincerely hope Israel is met with severe reprisals for this.


Chances are pretty slim though.


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Tequila
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14 Nov 2012, 9:44 pm

abacacus wrote:
I sincerely hope Israel is met with severe reprisals for this.


This killing of a Hamas leader is itself a reprisal for a massive launch of some 120 rockets over the last four days from Gaza into Israel by Hamas.



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14 Nov 2012, 10:53 pm

It's awesome that they nailed the military leader with a missile. These are people who built careers on sacrificing other people's lives, ordering people killed, and otherwise causing death and destruction. But I wonder why, if they're so able to take out targets with so little collateral damage (killing someone's kids is totally cool, amirite?) how come they haven't done the world a favor and toasted Assad?



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14 Nov 2012, 11:29 pm

abacacus wrote:
I sincerely hope Israel is met with severe reprisals for this.


Chances are pretty slim though.

alas that is not the world we live in:
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/u ... rikes-gaza
Quote:
The United States threw its weight behind Israel after it launched a barrage of air strikes on the Gaza Strip, and condemned Palestinian militant rocket attacks on southern Israel.

"We support Israel's right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties," US State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in a statement.

"We strongly condemn the barrage of rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel, and we regret the death and injury of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians caused by the ensuing violence," he added.

the usa was never going to take any other side. pretty sure at the time the article was published no israeli had died by the way... and it is the same rubbish about israel defending itself. if you are attacking civilians can you even pretend it is self defence? if it is babies under one year old can you still say that? even if the casualties weren't what they were i wouldn't believe it but with them it is just ridiculous.



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15 Nov 2012, 5:26 am

VMSmith wrote:
the usa was never going to take any other side. pretty sure at the time the article was published no israeli had died by the way... and it is the same rubbish about israel defending itself.


If Hamas launched their rocket attacks first, then it is still self-defence.

VMSmith wrote:
if you are attacking civilians can you even pretend it is self defence? if it is babies under one year old can you still say that? even if the casualties weren't what they were i wouldn't believe it but with them it is just ridiculous.


Yes you can, especially if Hamas is using the civilians as human shields to protect legitimate targets. It's actually against the Geneva Convention to use civilians as human shields, so if Hamas is using them as human shields then they are responsible for their deaths not Israel. Also, although the deliberate targeting of civilians is against international law, that does not include collateral damage where the civilians were not the targets.



abacacus
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15 Nov 2012, 5:39 am

Tequila wrote:
abacacus wrote:
I sincerely hope Israel is met with severe reprisals for this.


This killing of a Hamas leader is itself a reprisal for a massive launch of some 120 rockets over the last four days from Gaza into Israel by Hamas.


I'm substantially more sympathetic towards Hamas than a bunch of self righteous squatters.


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15 Nov 2012, 6:04 am

Evinceo wrote:
It's awesome that they nailed the military leader with a missile. These are people who built careers on sacrificing other people's lives, ordering people killed, and otherwise causing death and destruction. But I wonder why, if they're so able to take out targets with so little collateral damage (killing someone's kids is totally cool, amirite?) how come they haven't done the world a favor and toasted Assad?


Yeah, ''little colleteral damage''.

''Panicking civilians ran for cover and the death toll mounted quickly. Ten people including three children were killed, the health ministry said, and about 40 were wounded. Also among the dead were an 11-month-old baby and a woman pregnant with twins''

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... WP20121114

There is NO EXCUSE for this.


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VMSmith
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15 Nov 2012, 6:31 am

Jono wrote:
VMSmith wrote:
the usa was never going to take any other side. pretty sure at the time the article was published no israeli had died by the way... and it is the same rubbish about israel defending itself.


If Hamas launched their rocket attacks first, then it is still self-defence.

VMSmith wrote:
if you are attacking civilians can you even pretend it is self defence? if it is babies under one year old can you still say that? even if the casualties weren't what they were i wouldn't believe it but with them it is just ridiculous.


Yes you can, especially if Hamas is using the civilians as human shields to protect legitimate targets. It's actually against the Geneva Convention to use civilians as human shields, so if Hamas is using them as human shields then they are responsible for their deaths not Israel. Also, although the deliberate targeting of civilians is against international law, that does not include collateral damage where the civilians were not the targets.

yes using people as shields is wrong.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A[/youtube]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... avoid-jail
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... s-1.320311
very wrong.

and yeah, much as i dislike hamas and it's tactics, it is self defence seeing as palestinians have to contend with an occupying country and israel does not because it is the occupier. israel's been launching rockets at palestine for a long, long time. a lot of things israel does is against the geneva convention.