Black Boxes in cars...The American Surveillance State.

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http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/ ... 56232.html


I am appalled that each and every day, America is delving deeper into the very brand of absolutism that it spent half the 20th century trying to stop, or so we were lead to believe.

One constitutional violation at a time, the people can only take so much.

Nobody notices or cares about the drip, drip, drip until they are drowning.

Sad, but true, the average american is more concerned about trivial things.

Hopefully Western Europe is not the same.

Agreed that it is an invasion of privacy. But what was said in the article about not being able to disable them is false. The average person wouldn't be able to do so themselves, but it should not cost much more than $1,000 or so to have it done. Pricey, sure. But an extra grand isn't all that much more when you're already paying $20,000-$30,000 (or maybe much more, only taking into account the average person's new car). Of course, finding a mechanic willing to do it won't be easy, and you'll almost certainly void your warranty. But it can be done.

Western Europe is heading the same way. In some ways it is already worse. The UK is drowned in surveillance cameras everywhere. There was talk of requiring all cars to be fitted with devices tracking where they went supposedly for tax collection purposes i.e. there would be scanners on motorways registering usage and drivers would be billed per mile.

Your thread has just got me wondering how far down the slippery slope the world and the West in particular has gone:
* Surveillance cameras recording everyone's movements in most (UK) towns, often only a few yards apart.
* GPS tracking within mobile phones so the phone providers know where you are... this information being shared with third parties.
* Massive automated monitoring of emails, telephone calls and other electronic communications by government agencies monitoring conversations looking for keywords associated with "subversives".
* Requirements for internet service providers to record the activities and sites visited by all their users (UK)
* People giving away their own personal information on sites such as facebook which again are shared with third parties.
* Kids and teachers wearing ID badges with RFID tags so their movements can be tracked within schools.
* Increasing numbers of parents equipping their kids with devices or GPS enabled mobile phones to they can track them due to the ever-present threat of paedophiles.
* Facial recognition software being introduced in stores to scan your face as you enter and provide targeted adverts on displays as you walk past.
* Government owned facial recognition cameras in towns.
* Vehicle numberplate recognition cameras all over the place.
* Fingerprint database of all criminals... could be extended to include everyone.
* DNA database of all "criminals" which is being extended to cover any minor crime as an excuse for inclusion in the database... how long before newborn babies are automatically added to the DNA database... just think what a powerful tool that would be for law enforcement and other government agencies.

I'm sure I've forgotten others.

Too late. We've already walked like lambs to the slaughter into George Orwell's surveillance society.

It will probably only be a matter of time before newborn babies get an RFID tag implanted at birth... for their own safety of course so the babies aren't mixed up or stolen from hospital. and it will be a criminal offence for these tags to be removed or tampered with in any way. Such tags being illegal to remove or tamper with in any way right up until the death of the individual. Far fetched? The above list would have sounded far fetched twenty years ago. All we need is another national emergency and more draconian surveillance will be instigated.

Soon it will be illegal to have original thoughts; or those doing so or not following the herd will be considered outcasts or dangers to the state. If a kid wants to take a year out to travel the world after university will they be labelled as possibly subversive to society?

There was an article not so long back where a psychologist was suggesting that young people who don't have a facebook account may have a tendency towards anti-social behaviour and are more likely to behave in criminal ways!! ! Employers routinely check the facebook pages of potential employees - don't have a page? We don't want you because you are an anti-social subversive.

Conform, be part of the surveillance society or be an outcast... have fingers of suspicion pointing at you... are you a subversive or criminal?

Last edited by TallyMan on 08 Dec 2012, 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

This got me to thinking as well about the "enemies" of the government.

For most of the 20th century the enemy was the communist.

From the early 80's to the early 90's the enemy was the mobster.

From the mid 90's until 2010 or so, the enemy was the Muslim terrorist.

Now the enemy is the politically motivated hacker.

With blatant atrocities like this article, it leaves one with a question: Who is the next enemy? The dissent?

The next enemy will be whoever rocks the boat of those in power or whoever they can paint as being a dangerous enemy that necessitates reducing civil liberties and increasing surveillance. Knowledge is power. Control is everything.

I understand it is the manufacturers of the car and the insurance companies that get access to the data. The black box is private property and the government would not be monitoring it on a regular basis. If a black box resolves questions about a mishap, collision or equipment failure, what is the problem?

ruveyn

That is the argument used to justify all surveillance. There is a notional "good" from it; but also a dark side that is open to abuse. It is one more drip in the deluge of surveillance being imposed on everyone. Soon you won't be able to fart without government agencies knowing about it.

Then your problem is not "black boxes". It is the government which is what I have been saying all along.

ruveyn

Strange ... Back when Volkswagen introduced the first OBD computer system, I speculated in EE class that one day this technology could be used to throttle-down the engines of cars being pursued by the cops, and that with a few more refinements, the location of any vehicle could be determined at any time.

They laughed at me.

Who's laughing now?

Solution simple. Have an expert remove or disable it. Problem solved.

ruveyn

Or feed it bogus information. I design simulators for testing. They send whatever signals I choose to whatever device I'm testing at the moment. It would be simple to split the cables, splice in a simulator, and feed the black box just the right kind of signals to tell the MIBs that my car never leaves my garage. Or maybe that I drive it only to and from church on Sundays and never exceed the posted speed limit.

Then again, it may be possible to similarly 'spoof' a neighbor's black box into recording data that puts the vehicle at ground zero of a major crime.

Now that's really scary!

The only thing worse than a government that electronically surveys everything is a government that actually believes what electronic devices record is reliable. The hackers will always be one step ahead of them. These things aren't survelience devices; they're framing devices.

I, for one have a solution to that - I drive a '63 Valiant. No black boxes in cars built forty nine years ago!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

There was a school who used (I'm not entirely certain if they still do) fingerprint scanners in the cafeteria to prevent kids from getting extra meals. As we all know, those puny lunches are never enough to keep a kid fueled for an 8-hour span...
As for the "black boxes" in vehicles, many companies have already installed them in their semis and delivery trucks (think UPS) to monitor the truckers' use of fuel, speed, efficiency, break times and how long the vehicle has been idling. At my father's company, if you are driving one mile over the speed limit or are idling too long, you are called into the office and fired on the spot. The truckers have taken to calling them "nanny boxes."