A Saudi first: Gender-mixed Mozart concert

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03 May 2008, 8:38 pm

my goodness, what will they allow next, No means No?!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24443421/

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - It's probably as revolutionary and groundbreaking as Mozart gets these days. A German-based quartet staged Saudi Arabia's first-ever performance of European classical music in a public venue before a mixed gender audience.

The concert, held at a government-run cultural center, broke many taboos in a country where public music is banned and the sexes are segregated even in lines at fast food outlets.

The Friday night performance could be yet another indication that this strict Muslim kingdom is looking to open up to the rest of the world.

parts
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03 May 2008, 8:44 pm

Some day they my emerge from the Dark Ages this may be their first step but they have so far to go

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pakled
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04 May 2008, 12:18 am

Isn't your avatar a sketch of the Unibomber?...

Well, maybe they'll change, maybe not.

Chibi_Neko
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07 May 2008, 11:49 am

About time I say. I have studied Islam beliefs and I understand the reason for seperating the genders, but when it comes to dictating a person's beliefs to the point that gender seperation is law.... that is going too far. Religion is a personal issue, if people want to be gender mixed than they can do that if they want to. The government should stay out.

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oscuria
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07 May 2008, 1:31 pm

parts wrote:

Some day they my emerge from the Dark Ages this may be their first step but they have so far to go

Ask them and they'll tell you we are living in the Dark Ages.

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Religion is not a personal issue there. It is a way of life. It is something that involves all. Because of such, it dictates the life of all.

It's an Islamic nation. You have to understand that.

I will agree with you that Saudia is a very strict country with limited rights to non-muslims. If you are a muslim, it can be heaven. If you're not, don't expect anything.

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07 May 2008, 1:42 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

...another indication that this strict Muslim kingdom is looking to open up to the rest of the world.

After we apologize to them for those 15 deaths on Sept 11th, right?

/sarcastic protrayal of how liberals think

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07 May 2008, 1:48 pm

Public music banned... ahh, the strangeness of youth. Give em a few hundred years more time and Islam will be applying common sense to its rules.

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oscuria
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07 May 2008, 1:54 pm

Macbeth wrote:

Public music banned... ahh, the strangeness of youth. Give em a few hundred years more time and Islam will be applying common sense to its rules.

It is Ultra Conservative. There is no "common sense", at least not the west's. Just follow the law as prescribed in the Qur'an and Hadith.

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07 May 2008, 2:23 pm

oscuria wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Public music banned... ahh, the strangeness of youth. Give em a few hundred years more time and Islam will be applying common sense to its rules.

It is Ultra Conservative. There is no "common sense", at least not the west's. Just follow the law as prescribed in the Qur'an and Hadith.

Its a young religion. Christianity had its ultra-harsh phase, and mostly got over it. Now the hardline is seen as a little to the right of odd by most of the western world, as opposed to being the ONLY LINE AND YOU WILL FOLLOW IT OR BURN IN THE FIRES OF HELL etc etc.

Hopefully, given time Islam will mature, iron out the wrinkles, sort out the paperwork, and settle down for the long run.

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oscuria
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07 May 2008, 3:39 pm

Macbeth wrote:

oscuria wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Public music banned... ahh, the strangeness of youth. Give em a few hundred years more time and Islam will be applying common sense to its rules.

It is Ultra Conservative. There is no "common sense", at least not the west's. Just follow the law as prescribed in the Qur'an and Hadith.

I am not as hopeful, if that is the proper word.

The laws are two-fold: 1) Against the government 2) Against the religion.

Are there people who suffer under the strict laws? Yes. Do the people want to change? I don't think so. I am pretty sure they do not like the lifestyle of the west, save for the rich.

Macbeth
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07 May 2008, 3:43 pm

oscuria wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

oscuria wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Public music banned... ahh, the strangeness of youth. Give em a few hundred years more time and Islam will be applying common sense to its rules.

It is Ultra Conservative. There is no "common sense", at least not the west's. Just follow the law as prescribed in the Qur'an and Hadith.

They dont have to like it. They dont have to mimic it. They just need to chill out a little, become more moderate, in whatever style they choose.

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07 May 2008, 5:52 pm

Macbeth wrote:

They dont have to like it. They dont have to mimic it. They just need to chill out a little, become more moderate, in whatever style they choose.

That gets you severe treatment by the legal system over there: imprisonment, and sometimes death. Things such as women "chilling out" with men who aren't their husband or relative -- just so much as having coffee with or being seen in public with men.

No, they need an uprising -- an overturning of government -- not to just "chill out.a little" which can earn you death.
If you mean the govt needs to chill out? Well, obviously -- but Hell will chill quicker!

oscuria
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07 May 2008, 6:32 pm

Macbeth wrote:

They dont have to like it. They dont have to mimic it. They just need to chill out a little, become more moderate, in whatever style they choose.

lol, you are such a secularist. You'll never understand or change Saudi Arabia with that mentality.

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07 May 2008, 7:21 pm

People seem to be missing my point rather badly. Islam is a YOUNG religion. The stage it is passing through now is the same stage christianity passed through when it was still holding crusades. When it was still having inquisitions.. when church and state were effectively one and the same. When the law reflected religious morality more than any degree of common sense. These things are now mostly a thing of the past for christian nations. When islam has had another 300 or so years runtime, it may well have got over the worst excesses of fundamentalism and jihad and all the bollocks the world just does not need. I'm not saying that their civilisation need to mimic ours, or embrace all of our values, or our religion or even have Mcdonalds and Tesco ... It just needs to get out of the "holy war/women are satan" mindset, and the desire amongst parts of its following to press these beliefs on everybody.

Effectively "chill out."

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oscuria
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07 May 2008, 9:35 pm

Macbeth wrote:

And you seem to be missing the point that you are speaking of Saudi Arabia.

Lebanon? Dubai? Sure. Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? No.

Jihad is fundamental to Islam. Violent jihad just gets the attention.

I don't see it happening. Islam is not Christianity and as such will not follow in their footsteps.

The people prefer to live in that lifestyle. If they didn't they wouldn't be voting for Islamic politicians.

There is no such thing as a Christian nation anymore. It is a secular country whose population happen to call themselves Christian.

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07 May 2008, 9:51 pm

oscuria wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Because we seperated church and state.

You assume the people prefer it that way.. how much option have they actually got? How much voting power in those oppressed or ill-served by islam? How many non-Islamic politicians does Saudi have? Important people who are experts in this sort of thing were adamant that women werent interested in politics and should be more interested in hats and cookery at the start of the 19th century. Enter the suffragettes, and the female vote... Do saudi women have the political voice to make changes?

What I am saying is: In 300 years, a lot can change for a religion. Christianity mellowed substantially in that time, so why cant Islam? There are already moderate muslims, so its not exactly a ludcrous llogical leap to make.

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