maybe I should quit my faith and deny God to everyone

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As I am personally a fairly rabid Christian (woe on you all!), I am very sorry you see it this way.

It says in the psalms; "taste the Lord and know that he is good". My somewhat cautious suggestion to you is that you may not have "tasted" him rightly.

If you think God is evil, hates you, resents you or actively work against you then I quite understand why you all feel this way. But that is not the God I know, as my good pal Mr. Rosenius has said:

"O, what a wonderful and deep comfort it is when we with faith in our hearts can say: "All that is mine is his, and his is mine. My sin is his sin, my distress is his distress. But his righteousness is my righteousness, his obedience is my obedience, his blood is my purity, his death my life! Praised be his name!
Against my sin I hold forth his righteousness, against my cold heart his love. Against my weakness his strength. Then I say: Am I a sinner, then Christ is righteous. Am I cold then Christ is warm. Am I discouraged and frightened, then Christ is not at all discouraged. He knows counsel. Shortly said: Everything that is mine is his, and his is mine."

Oh, I beg to differ. How then would you see it fit that God proved his love for you? Surely not by taking all the sin of the world upon himself and enduring its punishment? Or would you rather live a life without any suffering? Everyone on the earth suffers and Christians are not exempt, quite the contrary, we might very well be more afflicted sometimes.
What it all boils down to is what you focus on. Christ did not come to obliterate suffering but to endure suffering with us, and take away our main problem: sin.

I hereby welcome inimical attacks against my person. Amen.

Ya know, it's funny, I know that and I'm still this frustrated and angry.
Is that like some kind of self contradictory thing?
I don't know, could that be what some deep hurt is coming up as first?

Here comes my cat, hi cat.
I am very appreciative of the action of God in saving his life and providing him to me.
And I'm still this frustrated and angry.
Yeah, it's at the root deep hurt, I know that.

I think I'm going to go zone out switching model train cars back and forth and then do some painting.

Let me first say that I am a Christian. Christianity, and other religions, are based on faith. As a Christian, I have to have faith that Christ existed, was crucified, and rose from the dead---and that He lived in order to save us. We cannot prove this, and we cannot disprove this. It is faith. I can understand how we can get upset with religion. Sitting in church today, I found myself getting a bit frustrated as the minister kept telling us how imperfect we are, and how full of sin we are. I get upset because one can begin to feel like a big pile of...well you know what. Sometimes I feel the church is harder on us than God is. I seriously do not believe that God wants us to feel miserable. I was getting pretty far from God until I got a call to do something---a call to do a music ministry---a call I got after being diagnosed with Asperger's this past fall. As I have difficulty in speaking about personal things in my life, how could God have put this on me? At the same time, I felt an urge to do it. After meditating about it with God, I felt the urge to act now. I emailed every Methodist church in our conference, and then I began getting bookings. My therapist worked with me on this---on how to relate personally in front of the church groups---because churches expect testimony. I testify to a gift God gave to me---a gift that I value highly---the gift of autism. This autism has allowed me a life filled with special intense interests, and a savant skill in music. At the same time---I have practically no social life---but that is fine. I am happy.

To Southwestforests---please do not get frustrated by the God that you have believed in. Fine tune your religious needs to what works for you. I play the organ at church, and I often leave after the music just before the sermon---because it is hard for me to sit through the sermon. I also find myself frustrated by certain messages. I know that doesn't seem healthy to the Christian way of life---but, it is how I avoid frustration in religion. And, my music ministry on dulcimers is satisfying my life spiritually. I have been doing about one of these music ministries a month. What I am saying is find your niche in religion. I haven't read all the posts on your thread, and I do not know your whole situation based on your initial post here. But I do sense that you have a need that is not being fulfilled. At least try to keep your faith for awhile longer and see if things improve. Try to meditate on what it is that you feel God is leading you to do. Often times the most fantastic messengers of God have been the ones that have drifted very far away from Him. And once they found their calling, wow...talk about a testimony. But, finding your niche doesn't have to be some earth-shattering thing. It might involve finding a different church, or helping with the spiritual needs of rest home residents. There are so many things you can do that can give your life spiritual purpose. Please don't abandon your faith in God yet.

Taking a break from train painting before I try to do too much at once and screw it up.

Hey, glider18, you make good points.

Those people who say "Christianity is a crutch" may well be right - and - probably haven't tried the faith part of it.
"Religion" is an easy crutch, faith, however, is bloody hard work.

Ya know, somewhere I've heard there's a phrase "The only thing wrong with you, is you." and based on the proverbial "law of averages and probability", sometimes that's got to be what I'm doing.

If God is so good and so powerful how come he did not stop the planes on 9/11? God had the power to stop the planes and stood back and did nothing he let the planes hit and people suffer unbelivible ammounts of pain. When you see evil happening and do nothing you are just as evil.


Don't get me started on the book of Job.

Many people wonder this, but perhaps this might help:


http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/04/16/how-could-loving-god

First I must say that I am not a christian as that will probably make the rest of this make more sense.

I believe we are put here to endure suffering. Not to be tested as many would put forth but rather to be tempered by the pain. To be strengthened by the difficulty and agony of our existence. I also believe that in the next life there will be a conflict that will make such conditioning worth while. As we gain strength here we are prepared for the fight ahead, and as we remain human through all of this we are readying ourselves for the peace that we will be fighting for.

Then again I'm crazy so I don't know if this helps.

i have noticed in american christians that the bible is taken VERY litterally

which causes a problem for many, in these modern times.

listen
you can be christian, and not take the bible word-by-word.

ive heard a norwegian priest tell us (in school as a kid) that dinosaurs did indeed evolve into birds because god created universe that way.
you dont have to contradict reality, just because your christian.

Thing is, it often takes some looking into the original language, and common sense, (which is astonishingly un-common for something common) to see what given parts are meant to be literal and what might be poetic, impressionistic, or allegorical.

It is likely making a big mistake in taking the whole thing all one way.
Sure makes maintaining inflexible dogma simpler that way, though.

And then there's my father-in-law, one of the "King James Only" crowd. (sect, maybe? cult, even?) Apparently I'm gonna burn because I have 4 other versions.
Hmm, what about all the people before there was the KJV? Guess they're going to burn too, eh?
Get a life, Raymond.
And then there's Fred Phelps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps can there be anyone who has it any more wrong? It's ultimately about LOVE, not Hate, Mr. Phelps.

Hey, wasn't this thread supposed to be about my emotional problems instead of doctrinal debates and editorials?

Then again, might be good for some of those here who are hurting and struggling in ways similar to how I am.
As far as muddling through life in this universe, we're all in this together.

maybe you may see after you die that what you are anguished about now matters naught then.
(that is if you are able to be conscious after you die).
if you are able to be conscious after you die, then that opens up the prospect of infinite existence, and in that context, no single developmental actuality in any point of time has any permanent meaning at all.

Actually, Victor, that is coming close to what my understanding of some variations within the realm of "Christian Concepts" is.
Sometimes it's those who are not so deeply immersed in something who begin to see it most clearly, in whole, or in part.

sometimes, like right now, I have great struggles holding on to that - my line of thought goes like this - "I'm not THERE, I am HERE! And HERE is the only place I exist. And I'm hurting and frustrated and weary of hurting: my heart and soul and spirit and body all hurt and have hurt for so long."

and then I think of all the pain and all the immeasurable pain and suffering happening all over this little ball of rock and water and wonder how it has not collapsed under it all.

if you live forever, then nothing that happens at any instant is significant.
but if you die and cease to exist at death, then all things that happen in your temporary life are valued as treasures, but there is really no point ever having lived if it finishes in total demolition.
so if there is no "point" to ever having lived, then it it is no worry for me to die. why live if there is no eternal future (point)?.

i was dead forever before i was born, and i came through that infinite time oblivious but intact to be born as a new baby.
i am sure that my next stint at being "dead forever" will be just as terminal as my last one.

That priest was assuming that dinosaurs evolving into birds is a reality. That priest is a believer in a mixture of religions (Evolution and Christianity). In the text books I read as a kid, dinosaurs evolving into mammels was considered the "reality." What will the "reality" be in a few years? Global cooling? Global warming? Global climate change? Global stay the same? There are Evolutionists who consider the Bible a fairy tale, and there are Bible belivers who consider evolution to be a fairy tale. Just because one is of one persuasion (religion) rather than another does not make that somebody more or less intelligent than someone from the other persuasion.

If I might dare to interject:

Isn't evolution science, not religion? I would have no problem believing that God created the world we now know through evolution, which does not clash, in my opinion, with the bible. The Christian faith won't implode if the six days of genesis are considered to be allegorical.

However, I think there is more, or rather less, to evolution than people like Richard Dawkins purports. "Evolution" has only been proven to occur within a species on a minor scale, not inter-species. Thus the fossil record shows a very "staccato" development and no missing link has been found to prove that evolution works on a large and random, inter-species, scale. At that point it's all just theorizing. Someone might disprove me though, I don't know more than what little I've read on this subject.

Please excuse my digression. I'll go chastise myself for my impunity.