I met a most astonishing young woman

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@techstepgeneration,

Advising DavidM to show sexual attention to his colleague before they have even started up a friendship or even interacted much is a terrible mistake. Showing sexual attention to a work colleague is totally inappropriate, and if you do it wrongly (which a person with AS might well do simply by mistake), it could be illegal. It will almost certainly lead to greater discomfort in the workplace than he is already feeling (which is already a lot!).

And another thing: the only case in which a woman will find intelligent conversation "off-putting" is if she does not enjoy intelligent conversation or is not intelligent. Given DavidM's excitement at discovering that the woman in question was an "IT expert", it is very clear that DavidM fancies women who ARE intelligent and DO enjoy intelligent conversation. Clearly David and this woman share an interest in computers. Obviously the best way to start interacting with her is to talk about that shared interest.

Your comments are childish and bordering on misogynistic. I am sorry that you are so misinformed by your friends. I'd advise you to ignore everything they say about women from now on, and get your information by asking women (on this forum, for example). If you want to know how women feel about things, ask a woman. In fact, ask more than one, because - newsflash! - they aren't all the same. And then think about it carefully, yourself, rather than letting your friends think for you. Maybe after that YOU will turn out to have something useful to say to THEM!

I appreciate your post in this capacity - I should have put a disclaimer in, ie. *don't* date coworkers, especially at a small place of business. Yes, he was glad to see someone who was intelligent and socially vogue simultaneously, he realized that appearances aren't exactly as they seem on that level and I have to agree, however its good for him to realize that - unless he's interested in putting himself at that kind of risk when it comes to his income and work history, I wouldn't recommend it.



I think what it is is this, yes, intelligent women do like intelligent conversation but typically its a good thing once a relationship has been established. DavidM was wondering why she stopped talking to him - it could have been that she felt like she sent mixed signals, she might be in a relationship already, she may not like the idea of mixing work with that kind of thing. However, outside of work, I've noticed that most women - of any intelligence level - need to see some sign from a guy that he has the agenda to start a relationship rather than just talking as a friend. The term 'sexual' might be too broad. The way my friends would put it is that they don't like intelligent conversation, I don't quite see it that way but rather that inititial signals mean everything and, unfortunately, I have to disagree - you do in most cases have to show intentionality right up front, otherwise by the time a guy gets to know and like a girl he's already sealed himself out. I'm not a fan of how things work like that, I'd never think of my outlook as mysogenistic though because I blame women for these kinds of things about as much as I blame myself for not being able to date women I'm not attracted to, genetic nature and instinct is probably our biggest hurdle in this lifetime and unfortunately it holds the high end of the pendulum, likely always will.


I don't take them *that* seriously though. If intelligence in outgoing social displays or conversation is generally a bad strategy I don't see it as women thinking "Wow, he must be five years old inside and have no idea what sex is or how to use his ...." - I'll let other guys take the military approach to pounding on themselves by fabricating worst-case scenarios in their minds of what other people might think. My take - its an issue of mixed signals. Intelligent conversation, especiially inoccuous intelligent conversation, is sexually/emotionally dry - I used to think that people would be able to see around it to realize 'this person's interested enough to talk to me', for some reason though it just doesn't work that way. Certain cues are manditory.



I've done that for a long time. Please believe me when I say that the post your responding to was a side of reality that positively makes me sick and takes who I am at heart - ie. the person your telling me I should be - and has me looking at myself as if I'm weak/unmanly for being more cerebral (at least if I take it with society's emotional overtones). Its why I have to be very careful when I listen to people just how much of their emotional charge on a topic that I'm willing to take in. There could be a lot of truth in what someone's saying, just that their presentation and emotional take on the facts can be mislead.

As far as listening to women on this - like other guys, I take it half seriously and half with a grain of salt. Guys can see what works but not why or whether its even an emotionally healthy avenue to chase (and, enough simply don't care). Women can tell guys what they want but on one side don't know how we feel and think, don't know how to explain it, and have a barrage of behavioral patterns when it comes to guys that they simply aren't aware of (I'm sure its true the other way as well).



Again, I realize my post was a bit blunt-force and not fully articulated. Sorry for the confusion. I will note though, I think you tend to make the same mistake that I do - ie. assuming that the world around you is more like you at heart than it actually is.

I think that what the other poster said about you making her coffee is correct.
The point is that she's put herself out to welcome a new person at work.

Have you thought about why she should continue to do so? Is the new person pleasant to her, and reciprocates with making themselves pleasant to be with, and offer her coffee in return?

In all the offices I've been in, people normally drink a few coffees a day. To make it easier, everyone takes turns to get coffees for everyone, thus minimising the number of times you get up for coffee. When I say "everyone", it's normally anywhere up to 6 coffees, as it's hard to carry more in one trip.

Sometimes, there would be a person in an office nearby sitting by themselves, or just not very obviously part of a group. Especially if they were new, nice people would make an effort to drop by and chat, and offer to make them a part of the coffee run.

It's an invitation. The new person effectively was "invited" to reciprocate by dropping by the group who had included him/her in the coffee run, to exchange a few friendly words, and offer to get them coffees in return. The opening is thus created to possible longer conversations and friendship. Does that make sense?

@techstepgeneration:

Cheers for replying, clarifying what you said and not simply taking offence. I can be too blunt sometimes but I'm glad in this case it led to something constructive and I have you to thank for that

Ah, I regret my last post in this thread: sometimes I just get so negative, and there's no need to.

I am going to begin again next week; I will be like a new person, fully in control of all my emotions.

Let this be a lesson to everyone who reads this: negative emotion has NO place in the world! Eradicate it as soon as you detect it in yourself! Even self-delusion and wishful fantasy is better than being a misery guts.

The most attractive quality there is, is to be happy with who you are.


Now: I asked to make her coffee before and she says no!

What could this mean?

I think it means I haven't opened myself up yet.

Just the other day I had my psychiatrist making coffee for me ... I never refuse a coffee.

I simply can't.

Why would I?

Not having been there or knowing the circumstances, I don't know why she refused the coffee. However, I did refuse a lot of coffees as I only drink it when I actually want a coffee, which is 2-3 a day, as opposed to the 6-8 cups some of my colleagues drank.

Glad to hear you're feeling better and all primed for a fresh foray into the job.

Yes, glad you are seeing things more positively and have not left.

I used to leave jobs after a few days all the time and I realised that it meant I had to start at the bottom again and again, with no references and no experience. So I started forcing myself to stay longer - and it has definitely been worth it. Not so many gaps on my CV now, not so many lies I have to tell to get into the next job, not so much energy spent looking for jobs, finding my way to new places on public transport, changing my shift patterns, blah blah blah - exhausting.

Doing the work is always the easy bit, it's dealing with the people that is hard! I can't tell you why she refused the coffee - it could be because she had just finished one, or was about to go out, or it could be because she feels uncomfortable because of something you said - it's POSSIBLE, but even if that is true then it's not the end of the world. You are still very new. A new person in the office is always a shake-up for everyone. In a few weeks' time everyone will settle down into their habitual ways of relating to one another again.

I do feel for you. I'm sorry if my last post was harsh. I am having problems with my boss this week and I had a day off yesterday because I couldn't sleep, and he got mad with me about it. So I'm not pretending to know the perfect way to behave at work! I just think that hanging in there and continuing to go to work and do a good job is bound to leave you in a better position than the alternative.

Best of luck.

i know how hard it is to deal with coffee and work colleagues.
i got off to a bad start with a girl in an office over coffee once.
she was based there, and i only visited for occasional meetings.

the manager said "this is 'sherry' mark. she will get you what you need for the meeting".
i said "a white coffee with 2 sugars thanks", and she said nothing and looked at me.
i said "a white coffee thank you. 2 sugars". she seemed unfriendly, and she said nothing and walked out.
a while later when the meeting started, she sat next to me and put a coffee on the table next to me, and i picked it up and sipped it but it only had one sugar in it by the taste of it.
when she noticed i was sipping the coffee, she said "excuse me", and i said not to worry, and that i could tolerate the coffee with only one sugar in it. she said "i'm sorry? " and i said "no need to apologize. it will do".

then i found out she was the head of IT, and it was her coffee, and when the manager said she would get me what i needed, he meant the documentation for the system that i needed, and i said i thought she was the "tea girl".
she became angry and called me a "buffoon", and i tried to explain that she looked and sounded like a "tea girl", and that was the only reason i asked for coffee. i would not have asked for coffee if i knew she was head of IT.
well she never really got on with me after that.

about a week later, at another meeting at another office, a girl said "can i get you some coffee ?" and i thought "i am not going to fall for that one again" so i said "no. i prefer to make my own coffee thank you" and i asked her where the kitchen was, and later i heard that she was annoyed because she thought i was a snob or something.

so now, when coffee is mentioned, i say "no thanks. i do not drink coffee", and i go and make my own without telling them it was me who made it.

hope that helps.

I noticed the change in you recently. Good for you. But don't be too down on negativity, it has its place. Yin and Yang. I kinda flip flop between massive positivity and overwhelming negativity, which probably isn't too healthy, but it is what it is. Probably better to get it out here than anywhere else.

Anyway, good luck.

I'm not surprised. That was a funny story.

Ye gods, B9!
You might have gotten away with the rest of it, but the bit where you said she looked and sounded like a tea girl would have pretty much torn it, no matter how long you'd known her or how much she liked you!

Good god, b9, I made a couple of faux pas at my first office job, but yours takes the cake. Not to put you down or anything, but I'm imagining how it looked like from a third party point of view. So you mistook the head of IT for a tea girl (must be an Australian term 'cause I never heard it in the States), and drank her coffee. While I'm sure it was ah honest mistake on your part, comparing a high-level employee to someone who serves drinks is a big no-no. Oh well, live and learn. My situation would probably be a little easier, since most companies don't have tea girls, so it would simply be a case of mistaking someone else's coffee for mine.

As for you reaction in the other office, that was totally unnecessary. It's a different situation, in a different place, with different people. More likely than not, no one has even heard of the original story. So when you reacted with "no thanks, I'll make my own", no wonder people thought you were a snob. Apparently, there's an unwritten code at most offices where offering to make coffee is a gesture of friendship, and if you don't accept it, you're telling the person that you don't enjoy their company. (With that said, refusals for reasons like being very picky about how you want your coffee are accepted, and you're supposed to say "thanks, but [short explanation].")

Cheers you guys, for all your posts.

I've been thinking about this soberly, and I've realized (like someone posted) it's better not to try and get 'sexual' with a work colleague, not now, so soon, and not for the forseeable future, if at all.

Be FRIENDLY - yes, absolutely. Chat and get on, be supportive, share a laugh - yes definitely, absolutely.

But in my youthful lust I temporarily forgot the fact that my number one concern is to keep my job and impress my colleagues with my competence.

Sitting around fantasizing about dating one of your colleagues results in a bad worker.

And even if I did take her out on a date - say something bad happened. Can you imagine going into work every morning and sitting beside someone you've embarrassed yourself in front of during a date? That would make going into work a PITA (pain in the ass).

Bottom line: I need to focus on being friendly, helpful, and demonstrating my IT competencies. (I've passed quite a lot of IT-related examinations, have a few years' experience, etc.)



NOW ... my hairdresser on the other hand, I think she quite likes me.

It would be no bother to ask HER out on a date. It isn't difficult to find another person to cut your hair, if the worst comes to the worst.

LOL!

That is my MOTTO!

Absolutely true.

IT? I can do that with my eyes shut.

Impressing people with my great social skills? A camel would sooner pass through the eye of a needle.

Louis Wain.

He loved cats. He drew cartoons of them for greeting cards. And studied his pet cat and learned how to draw cats by observing his own cat.
As he developed schizophrenia, his works got proportionally stranger as he got stranger. The pattern fillings that replaced the backgrounds reflect how schizos can get a fascination with patterns. I'm actually not sure why they are kooky-looking kitties. But they do reflect how his mind changed.
It was interesting. I used to have an infatuation for his work.


Oh, and that chick sounds hot...Except for smoking. Although I love the way you described how it's sexy.

Deary me! What a classic story. It is funny, though.