Got the sally ann test wrong as an adult
I have a really good Sally Ann tests from my own personal mistake. Experience is a good teacher.
One especially good but painful one (among many from him) wS from my Ex H.
In fact most of the stress wd have been eased, if I realized from day 1 he was using my ‘theory of mind deficit’ against me whenever he wanted to play mind games or control me.
What sucks is if u are in a family with this ‘mind blindness’ issue - even if mine is worsw than my family’s- but then u grew up with training that overlooked ‘theory of mind’ -
Or explained it away (to family’s own detriment)
So u were further trained away from theory of mind
My dad said
(after many things tht happened with XH and Lawyer)
‘I realize now that you are more simple than a little girl. A little girl would be more street smart than you.’
‘ i said ‘you mean stupid?’
He said ‘not stupid, just easy to fool.’
Which is the same thing, no? ![]()
_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill
He said ‘not stupid, just easy to fool.’
Which is the same thing, no?
If someone, either accidentally or on purpose, puts an obstacle in front of a blind person without warning, and the blind person walks into it, we wouldn't call the blind person "stupid" for colliding with an obstacle that they had no reason to think was there. Like everyone, autistic people have to make our decisions based on the best information that's available to us, but the perceptual and cognitive differences of our autistic brains can leave us unable to perceive information which others have no trouble perceiving, and the people around us often behave as if we are able to perceive things which we cannot. This isn't the same as lacking the ability to make a good decision if we had access to all the same information that most other people do. Making the best decision that we can based on limited information is no more "stupid" than the example of the blind person.
_________________
When you are fighting an invisible monster, first throw a bucket of paint over it.
He said ‘not stupid, just easy to fool.’
Which is the same thing, no?
If someone, either accidentally or on purpose, puts an obstacle in front of a blind person without warning, and the blind person walks into it, we wouldn't call the blind person "stupid" for colliding with an obstacle that they had no reason to think was there. Like everyone, autistic people have to make our decisions based on the best information that's available to us, but the perceptual and cognitive differences of our autistic brains can leave us unable to perceive information which others have no trouble perceiving, and the people around us often behave as if we are able to perceive things which we cannot. This isn't the same as lacking the ability to make a good decision if we had access to all the same information that most other people do. Making the best decision that we can based on limited information is no more "stupid" than the example of the blind person.
With the blind person it is obvious and understood (ppl can and have had experiences of closing their eyes or turning off the lights n bumping into something,
and understand how difficult it is to navigate without sight)
With ASD what is the relevant thing to get them to understand?
The closest I cd get to (in a video i tried to explain this at length)
was if a person magically walked into another culture with no prior knowledge of that culture’s rules/expectations/common history etc..
and this happened with them not realizing they are actually in another, foreign culture suddenly (so they think its still their country n culture)
(eg going undiagnosed or making mistakes but not knowinb why or having cognitive difficultiesn n not knowing it cannot b helped)
_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill
I am guessing it is common knowledge, but it is here
https://youtu.be/wp0rQ18gJUw
anyway I watched a video about it and got it wrong despite being an ADuLT level 1
It must be so mucg harder fr kids- esp level 2 or 3
Even now in my mind if I try to recreate the test I still want to say the wrong answer - I know intellectually now that it is wrong
but my instinct is urging me to that answer still.
This theory of mind thing goes a long way towards explaining all my other troubles. if my brain is saying one thing assuming a certain response, and ppl react differently of course trouble will arise
Don't beat yourself up! The Sally-Anne Test is rigged; it's designed to set you up to fail. Not even that, the wording sometimes varies. Such as: "Where will Sally look for her ball?" vs. "Where will Sally find her ball?" (I do wonder how it's worded in languages other than English.) Even more so, it doesn't specify whether she will "initially" vs. "eventually" look for/find her ball. Another variation is making test characters dolls, rather than people, which is further meant to trip you up, by throwing pretend play, imagination, and/or suspension of disbelief into the mix.
Worst of all, if you ask the shrink for clarification, they won't give it to you!
TL;DR: It's not your fault, and never was. Shrinks set up the Sally-Anne Test this way.
Complete and utter BS.
"Difference in wording" my ass.
If they ask "where would sally find the ball ?" instead of "where would she look for it first?"then its not the sally ann test, or they are incompetents who botch the test.
The whole point is to see if the subject can distinquish between where another person would look for it and where it actually is so that change in wording would change the whole nub of it.
He said ‘not stupid, just easy to fool.’
Which is the same thing, no?
If someone, either accidentally or on purpose, puts an obstacle in front of a blind person without warning, and the blind person walks into it, we wouldn't call the blind person "stupid" for colliding with an obstacle that they had no reason to think was there. Like everyone, autistic people have to make our decisions based on the best information that's available to us, but the perceptual and cognitive differences of our autistic brains can leave us unable to perceive information which others have no trouble perceiving, and the people around us often behave as if we are able to perceive things which we cannot. This isn't the same as lacking the ability to make a good decision if we had access to all the same information that most other people do. Making the best decision that we can based on limited information is no more "stupid" than the example of the blind person.
With the blind person it is obvious and understood (ppl can and have had experiences of closing their eyes or turning off the lights n bumping into something,
and understand how difficult it is to navigate without sight)
With ASD what is the relevant thing to get them to understand?
The closest I cd get to (in a video i tried to explain this at length)
was if a person magically walked into another culture with no prior knowledge of that culture’s rules/expectations/common history etc..
and this happened with them not realizing they are actually in another, foreign culture suddenly (so they think its still their country n culture)
(eg going undiagnosed or making mistakes but not knowinb why or having cognitive difficultiesn n not knowing it cannot b helped)
Yes. "easy to fool" isn't necessarily the same as "stupid".
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