Autism misdiagnosed with Retardation

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So what? And what is a "ret*d" stare?

I recommend you to search it up on google.

Also you shouldn't insult DSers, just because they look "funny" or speak "slowly" doesn't mean they are stupid you know, I know a guy who has Down's, he looks different and he speaks slowly, but he's coherent and has quite an understanding of things and has quite a vocabulary. Most (actually all) stupid people I've met were of average or above average "intelligence".

I haven't directly insulted them, I didn't say they were stupid, but they are viewed more acceptable than those of aspergers in society, that is facts.

Aspies are frequently referred to as having "dead eyes" or the "aspie eyes", I have them myself, of course my overall face structure is "normal", so basically your insulting HFA's for having the same "dead eyes" that we have ourselves or is it something else?

I have the same eyes as most people, but I notice that when I get angry, my eyes turn animal-like, I have seen it in some pictures, I might post a pic of it, and I view it as hot.

They probably don't like you due to your smug elitist attitude.

They don't like me because I am and aspie, that is the reason, I am cleraly more hygienic than my HFA classmate.

He is so unhygienic, he picks his nose, eats candy from garbage cans, and touches his pe*** during class, which I find utterly unpleasant watching, since he sits right next to me, but a girl in my class thought he was cute and "Well-Dressed" when I asked her about him, and I found it absolutely pathetic. He just smiles while doing unhygienic things as well, I cannot believe he is popular among the girls.



Some parents do love their DS children, others do not (they are jerks), some parents do indeed love their autistic children (despite what you believe) others do not (they are jerks). False black and white dictiomony.

I have always seen parents love their DS'ers, but disguist and cry over thewir autistics, because they are......... you understand. I saw a TV-show one day, and the father of an autistic girl started crying in front of a half million people because his daughter was autistic, HOW SAD. I would NEVER do that no matter what, now he has probably got a very bad rumor amongst others.



Smug senses of superiority based on superficial nonsense and elitism makes you stink much worse as a person.

No, it makes me more likeable and pleasant to be around, unless if I looked and dressed like a tramp, that is not pleasant.



I have decent hygene but I don't have a lively expression on my face usually, I guess I'm "not" human or an Aspie, according to you.

You are human, like everyone else, that is very obvious!

Last edited by bdhkhsfgk on 22 Sep 2009, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ I think almost everything above is true, don't find it offensive, it is not meant to be so.

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The particular social norms I'm talking about could indeed be cultural (although not clique based since people with Down's are rarely members of a clique). I'm talking about conversational and social relating norms. People with Downs Syndrome seem to just "get it". Their social interactions are not impaired. Whatever the local social conversational conventions are, they pick on them. I have seen this with children in my daughter's special ed program. The children with Down's Syndrome (there are 2) just "get it". They walk up to somebody and show off their favorite toy and start talking about it and ask about the toy the other child is holding. They get that whole give-and-take that makes for a comfortable conversation and which eludes my daughter. They point out things in their enviroment for other people to remark on and they pay attention to things other people point out and ask questions or make comments about it. In sum, they have conversations that are exactly like the conversations of any of their non-special ed peers except more slowly and at a less intellectual level. This means that the non-special ed children have a fairly easy time making conversation with them. They are patronizing but more welcoming because the children with Downs use a conversational format that is familiar and comfortable to them.

edited to add: it probably looks weird that I answered the question only in terms of Downs Syndrome. I just got caught up in another part of my post and bdfjk's that focused on why people cut so much slack for people with Downs Syndrome and so little for people with Autism or especially Aspergers. To broaden it out: that social norms that people probably assume Aspies are flouting intentionally are the ones where non-verbals are used for communication. NTs have no way of knowing that their non-verbal signals aren't being picked up by the Aspie person. So they think that their non-verbal signals are being deliberately ignored rather than just missed and so react with bewildrement at best, hostility at worst.

Last edited by Janissy on 22 Sep 2009, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

haha you should switch places with these ''ret*ds and downs people'' for a day. lets see if you still think they got a way better deal then you.

Maybe so.



Same as whom? NTs or Auties/Aspies? My eyes are cold/dead when I'm in a "cold" emotional state (depression *melancholic, dysphoria, slight depression*, anger), when I'm anxiety ridden (fear, anxiety, paranoia) I look abit "primal" as in a scared puppy, lol, grief/sadness has my eyes light up in a different way as does happiness. Thing is I rarely have anything to be happy about so of course my eyes and facial expression is "dead" alot, that and I'm "to serious" or whatever.



Are you sure that's why they don't like you? Infact are you sure they don't like you? Interpreting non-signs as hostile is called "hostile attributional bias", so their dislike for you may just be in your head, but it may not, I do not know. But if they do dislike you I doubt it's because you're an Aspie or more hygenic, and if it is then they're being shallow idiots themselves.



Not every parent of an autistic is like them you know, my mother doesn't cry because I'm autistic.



I was refering to superiority complexes based on superficial catagories, not your hygene. Yes, your hygene will make you more pleasant to be around, but holding a smug elitist attitude and superiority complex will make you very unpleasant to be around.



The ones you list below seem to be "duhs" for me and actually seem like they should actually be universal.



I can't speak for your daughter (or other Autistics for that matter) but that doesn't elude myself, that knowledge hasn't really helped me though.

Edit: I don't feel as if I was precise enough in my statement, it has helped me, but only in keeping the friends I already have and have made and people who give me a chance, it doesn't help with absolute strangers, infact strangers seem to completely ignore social-conventions from my POV.



NVC has alot of flak to it though, I can read it (again speaking for only myself) but it may not mean what I think it means, NTs misread signals too, then there are the people who are just good fakers/actors.

Last edited by Demon-Chorus on 22 Sep 2009, 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

No.
There do seem to be occasions where its opposite of a sharp pointed stare would be useful.

My variation on "flat stare": The "staring into space", dreamy look. I think maybe it's got something to do with my general tendency to pick out a lot of visual details, and habit of unfocusing my eyes when I'm not actively trying to analyze my surroundings. Probably an energy-saving strategy.

You know, that really got me to thinking about it. When you're saying that, you're thinking of yourself in the position of someone with Down's--that is, you with all your preferences and hobbies and personality. You probably wouldn't like suddenly having Down Syndrome because you haven't grown up with it, the way that people born with it have. People naturally gain skills and personality traits and preferences based on the way their brains work; and someone with Down's will gain those things in a way that best suits them--not in a way that would suit a more intellectually oriented Aspie type. If you were to switch places, I don't think either of you would like it--not because either way of living is superior to the other, but because when you switched, you simply wouldn't fit!

Your DS friend would be annoyed at not being able to reach out to other people and having to participate in (say) your favorite computer programming class, which he's most likely got no interest in; you'd be driven up the wall by the way your brain suddenly stopped cooperating when you decided to research something that caught your fancy, and probably bored by the way you were now expected to hang out with a bunch of friends and watch TV after work every day. People grow into their brains, I think; and they're not meant to be anybody else. That's probably why people who get head injuries get depressed so easily once they realize their brains don't work like they used to. You're born the way you're born and you are who you are, and whether you've got DS or AS, you're going to be a lot more comfortable being yourself instead of trying to crawl uncomfortably into somebody else's skin.

If you'd been born with Down's, it wouldn't be that much of a big deal to you, because you wouldn't be the person you are now; you'd be a person who was born with Down's. Different things matter to different people. The only real universal is that we all want to be treated with respect, as equals.

i get accused for being stoned or drunk all the time when i am not. people with autism often appear to be stoned.

I'm confused. If autism has no real physical appearance why do you say they all looked ret*d? Surely you can't just mean hygiene and the dreamy/drugged out look because those are common AS traits. Odd walking patterns is also an AS trait. So is no eye contact.

This whole thread is highly offensive, bdhkhstfgk you sound like your jealous of people who have down syndrome.
Your a rotten selfish evil little jerk, it seems to burn your ass that people with down syndrome are better people then
you can ever be.
I have a little niece how has down syndrome, she is an angel, and I hope she never hears someone call her ret*d.

I have nothing against those with DS, but I find it pathetic that they are viewed as angels, and aspies as ridiculous.

I think you've just proven my point, you can't expect someone with a
limited intellectual capacity to behave like a angel, thats not the point.
You supposedly have some IQ, but you lack the intellectual reasoning
with your argument that aspies are seen as ridiculous, don't lump people
with aspergers as ridiculous, because of your own behavior.

It's not really the words that matter; it's the way people say it. "Mentally ret*d" as a clinical term (on its way out, but still a clinical term) is not an insult; but it's growing into one simply because people think that pointing out that somebody is MR is offensive because MR itself is something shameful you shouldn't point out. That attitude, the one that turns valid terms gradually and repeatedly into insults, is the problem; you can ban words all you like and it won't do a thing to change the way people think about it.

I should explicitly give the heads-up to anybody still using the term that the noun "ret*d", is now universally considered offensive and implies not just the fact of somebody having a cognitive disability but that you look down on them for it. "ret*d" is also becoming offensive and should probably be avoided as well, but "mentally ret*d" is still borderline OK.

It's not that words are important by themselves; just that you don't want to be misunderstood. I recently had somebody tell me that using the phrase "person with mental retardation" was even beginning to be offensive! If you want to talk about it without people thinking you are a bigot, you often have to keep up with the politically correct terms. I think it's silly, personally, but what can you do? I'd much rather sound awkward and stiff than accidentally have somebody think that I want to insult them.

I think if you're jealous of the larger degree of social acceptance that people with Down's often get, the proper response isn't to get mad at them nor to feel jealous, but to try to change things so that everybody gets accepted. I don't remember who posted the analogy, but it's an awful lot like field slaves focusing on being jealous of house slaves, instead of trying to get rid of slavery altogether.

This made me think about somebody you should probably know about in a "know your enemy" sort of way. Professor Peter Singer of Princeton University. He is an evil, evil man and ironically, teaches an ethics course there. One of his core values is that non-disability makes human life worth living and intelligence is what makes humans human. As a corollary, he thinks that people with an IQ <20 should not be considered humans. Unsurprisngly he advocates abortion for a variety of genetic conditions and has been accused (rightfully) of being a eugenicist. He spent some years going on a lecture tour with a woman in a wheelchair because of a severe bone degenerative disease. They would debate each other. He would argue for the worthlessness of life with disability and she'd argue for the value (using herself as an example). When she died of her degenerative bone disease, the New York Times let him write her obituary (outrage!) where he admitted that he had grudgingly come to accept her view in the worth of her own life and the life of others with physical disabilities. However, she was smart. Her disability was from the neck down. He stood his ground that people with cognitive disabilites had worthless lives and those with profound mental retardation weren't actually people. All this in her New York Times obituary. Like I said, evil.

Why do I bring him up? Because I can tell from your posts that you are the anti-Singer. I would absolutely love to hear your take-down of his ideas if you are up for it. I can see that his values are abhorant but I can't put it into as elegent words. I know you have a blog (I read it- I read it long before I found WP) so if you are ever searching for ideas for a fresh blog entry a dissection of him would be...awesome. Or maybe he's just too awful and you don't want to wade into that muck.

Sometimes I wonder if ignorance isn't the true definition of retardation considering how the label is used on WP and our society.

I go to two autism groups and none of the people there look like the ones the OP described in his. But there is a couple people there, one is small and blind and the other rocks back and forth and that's it. They both talk. None of us look stoned there.