I think revenge can be healthy

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leejosepho
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23 Apr 2011, 8:02 am

Booyakasha wrote:

I could go along the lines of Buddhist teaching of illusory ego, the cause of all suffering ...

I know nothing about that, but Dr. Harry Tiebout talked a lot about the ego and was very influential in the early days of A.A. while talking about "ego deflation in depth" ...

Quote:

For reasons still obscure, the program and the fellowship of AA could cause a surrender which in turn would lead to a period of no drinking. It became ever more apparent that in everyone's psyche there existed an unconquerable ego which bitterly opposed any thought of defeat. Until that ego was somehow reduced or rendered ineffective, no likelihood of surrender could be anticipated ...

http://silkworth.net/tiebout/tiebout_ego_deflating.html

http://silkworth.net/tiebout/tiebout_papers.html

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Booyakasha
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23 Apr 2011, 8:23 am

Interesting, thanks, I will take a look.

CaptainTrips222
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25 Apr 2011, 1:37 am

hyperlexian wrote:

i don't have an instinct to personally "get revenge".

i just keep in mind that at the end of the day, i have to live with myself, and that other person has to live with their own self. i have to exist peacefully inside my own head, and if i go around taking revenge, then i am poisoning my own internal character (as per Booyakasha's statement).

the other person already poisoned their own character, and they have to live with that. i can't force that person to give a sh** about treating me badly either - even if they got their comeuppance from me i can't force them to care about what they did, and what is the point in causing empty suffering?

Of course you can't force them to care, just like an act of vengeance can't force them to actually feel bad. It might just amuse them. But in my experience, after I've given them a few knocks, they wise up a little and knock off their crap, where as words and communication didn't phase them. It can send the message that this is one person I can't **** with without getting injured. And, while I can't speak for others, I admit I do feel a certain sense of relief after I've gotten mean and cruel with someone who did so with me. I feel like I expressed my true sentiment. It's just different psychology I think.

One time this woman and I were having a conversation, and we both agreed that sending ANY negativity into the world can come back on you. But when she said hitting someone who just punched you wouldn't make you feel better, I totally disagreed and still do to this day. Just a difference.

leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 5:50 am

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

One time this woman and I were having a conversation, and we both agreed that sending ANY negativity into the world can come back on you. But when she said hitting someone who just punched you wouldn't make you feel better, I totally disagreed and still do to this day. Just a difference.

At least you did not punch her!

For me, the "make you feel better" element of getting back at someone is short-lived, since I ultimately realize I actually have placed negativity between the other person and myself in a world where all of us really need less of that.

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Simonono
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25 Apr 2011, 6:11 am

According to American Dad, 'revenge is America's favourite pass-time.'

wefunction
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25 Apr 2011, 6:33 am

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

You're both confusing self-defense and revenge.

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25 Apr 2011, 2:04 pm

wefunction wrote:

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

You're both confusing self-defense and revenge.

I did point out that even if you wouldn't feel better, you probably should hit them back to deter a future attack, so it is self defense. But either way I'd feel better. And I guess she wouldn't. Or...maybe that's because she never had the opportunity? She's missing out! Everybody should get to punch somebody in the face at least once (j/k)

Usagi1992
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01 May 2011, 7:57 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye just leaves everybody toothless and blind.

So be it.

I agree. If someone strikes you, you strike back, do you not? As Captain Ahab once said, 'I'd strike down the sun if I thought the sun insulted me.'

Sorry, but that's just how it works.

wefunction
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01 May 2011, 8:05 pm

Usagi1992 wrote:

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye just leaves everybody toothless and blind.

So be it.

I agree. If someone strikes you, you strike back, do you not? As Captain Ahab once said, 'I'd strike down the sun if I thought the sun insulted me.'

Sorry, but that's just how it works.

And everything worked out quite well for Captain Ahab.

auntblabby
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01 May 2011, 11:24 pm

Usagi1992 wrote:

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye just leaves everybody toothless and blind.

So be it.

I agree. If someone strikes you, you strike back, do you not? As Captain Ahab once said, 'I'd strike down the sun if I thought the sun insulted me.'

Sorry, but that's just how it works.

if the world as it is, is fine by you, then all hope is indeed lost, for there are enough people who agree with you, to form a critical mass preventing human progress towards a more peaceful and loving world.

wefunction
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02 May 2011, 10:37 am

auntblabby wrote:

Usagi1992 wrote:

CaptainTrips222 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye just leaves everybody toothless and blind.

So be it.

I agree. If someone strikes you, you strike back, do you not? As Captain Ahab once said, 'I'd strike down the sun if I thought the sun insulted me.'

Sorry, but that's just how it works.

Herman Melville would be in complete agreement with auntblabby. This is why quoting Ahab to substantiate an argument for revenge instead of dissuade it either makes Usagi1992 an enemy of both peacemaking and classic literature or means Usagi1992 has a highly developed sense of irony with the dry humor to deliver it undetected.

auntblabby
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03 May 2011, 6:33 am

wefunction wrote:

i vote for the latter, as i often miss subtle things. Usagi1992 is so subtle.

Usagi1992
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03 May 2011, 9:51 am

auntblabby wrote:

wefunction wrote:

i vote for the latter, as i often miss subtle things. Usagi1992 is so subtle.

Well, allow me to clarify some more with my original response. Even though I do still subscribe to the philosophy that if someone strikes you, you strike back...I'm aware that the Captain Ahab quote I referenced was actually in response to someone calling him out on wanting to get revenge on a 'stupid animal' (the titular Moby Dick). He said to Ahab that it was pointless to waste so much time and energy into killing a simple beast just because it did what it did out of pure survival instincts. THAT'S what prompted Ahab's quote about 'striking down the sun'.

But in a way, I can still relate to Ahab on one thing...you see, even though I'm an animal lover, usually, that flies out the window if one of them does me any intentional harm. I don't know HOW animal trainers can keep their cool, and even make jokes about being bitten sometimes, because if that was me in that position, I'd be like "SON OF A--!!" and just pummel said animal near to death!

That American woman who held no ill thoughts about that bull that almost killed her during The Running of the Bulls...she's f**king nuts.

Usagi1992

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05 May 2011, 7:48 pm

Oh, I found the whole of that 'Moby-Dick' quote. Maybe this'll clarify things better:

Starbuck: Vengeance on a dumb brute! That simply smote thee from blindest instinct! Madness! To be enraged with such a dumb thing, Captain Ahab, seems blasphemous...
Ahab: Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me. For could the sun do that, then I could do the other.

-Usagi1992-

Usagi1992
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05 May 2011, 8:57 pm

auntblabby wrote:

wefunction wrote:

i vote for the latter, as i often miss subtle things. Usagi1992 is so subtle.

I Know I've already responded to this set of posts in response to auntblabby, but allow me to explain myself to you, wefunction.

You see, even though I still hold onto the belief that if someone strikes you, you strike back, I most certainly would NEVER take it as far as the fictitious Captain Ahab. To hold onto spite and hate for that long, it's like a poison. I knew that you were being sarcastic when you responded to me originally by saying "And everything worked out well for Ahab in the end". Well, I for one would NOT want to die like that...angry and hateful and bitter to the last.

"To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!" - That's not how I want to end my life

I'll conclude my contribution to this thread by quoting something more hopeful, from the end of American History X:

"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time; it just isn't worth it."

Usagi1992

P.S. - And yes, I am of the latter.

auntblabby
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06 May 2011, 10:03 am

Usagi1992 wrote:

"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time; it just isn't worth it."

or couched in some colorful inner-city patois, "if you just go 'round addin' and subtractin' - pretty soon it just be too late."

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