Abandoned- hopeless- barely holding on

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No, thank you man. Seriously. You've taken a lot of time here to give thoughtful feedback and given me some things to look at. You've spoken same very hard truths to me that really, really hit home. Also reiterated many things, ironically so, that my wife had tried to teach me over the years. But hearing these from someone who doesn't even know me somehow brings additional validation. I appreciate that you really appear to get where I'm coming from in regards to my own personal struggles of managing my own emotions.

I don't expect you to keep coming back to this I really appreciate the time. I will keep you roped into this thing until you quit...

beakybird, I'm a fan of yours, and my heart is just breaking because you're hurting so.

I only read the first few posts on the first page----so, I apologize if someone has already said what I'm about to say, and you have rejected the notion.....

I'm wondering if you're loving people so intensely because you're thinking that if you just constantly show love / give / be a good person, that they couldn't help but love you, back? That type of thinking can do a couple of not-so-good things. Firstly, it can be smothering to the other person; secondly, it can make the person doing it feel exhausted, and eventually figuring-out that they're not having a give-and-take relationship (that they're giving WAAAAY more, than they're getting).

One shouldn't have to beg another to love them----or "buy" their love, by being ceaselessly giving, etc. Someone worthy of the kind of love you have been showing, is one who loves AS MUCH!

You've said your wife has mental issues, and I'm wondering if you thought you could fix her, and everything would just be Disney. That rarely happens. A person has to realize their own problems, and want to fix them. It is, IMO, just like when one is an alcoholic, drug addict, overweight, whatever----they have to WANT to fix THEMSELVES.

This texting you daily, bit (again, I only read the first page), has got to stop----she's just stringing you along, right now. You've got to find the strength to tell her to stop it. At-this-point, she's holding all the cards, making all the judgments / decisions----and, it all has to do with what makes HER feel comfortable, and that's not fair. She's not going to consider YOUR best interests, so you're gonna have to.

I have heard many a man say: "Treat a woman like a queen, and she'll sh!t all over ya"----and, I've seen many a woman do it (not ALL women are like this, obviously). I'm thinking the only time you should treat a woman like a queen, is if she's treating you like a KING!! Yes, be good to a woman----but, NOT to the point that you lose YOURSELF, and what you hold dear (morals, values, etc.)----AND, make sure that you're GETTING whatcha GIVE!!

Again, my heart goes-out to you!!

Take care,

Cat

Edit: punctuation.

Anytime, Beaky. I will keep coming back. We are very similar. It's just always easier to give advice thank to take it

Even if I have heard it before. Hearing something from 5 people carries more weight than 2. And everyone's experienced life and love differently. And sees the world through a unique set of eyes. I value all perspectives form anyone kindly enough to take the time to share them. And every bit so far I've taken to heart and really truly considered. I'm not venting just to do it, though that is helpful as well. I'm wondering if you're loving people so intensely because you're thinking that if you just constantly show love / give / be a good person, that they couldn't help but love you, back? That type of thinking can do a couple of not-so-good things. Firstly, it can be smothering to the other person; secondly, it can make the person doing it feel exhausted, and eventually figuring-out that they're not having a give-and-take relationship (that they're giving WAAAAY more, than they're getting).

You make a very astute observation here. I've said this before. But I'm not the "good person" I appear to be by the way I tell my story. I do give so intensely because I am so needy. I mean, I do think there is some level of baseline compassion. But I wouldn't have the same compassion for someone who wasn't emotionally important to me. I do give, and give so much because I feel like, and this is mostly sub-conscious until recently, I know being good keeps people around. SO much so, that even when they don't want to be around me, they still want to talk with me... like my wife currently. I do feel like if I pour enough in, I'll get what I need back out. But I do also think that sort of "selfishness" goes on with most people in regards to relationships. Relationships are self-serving. Even if you are a giving person. The end goal is to still get out of it what you want to get out of it.

It's never really dawned on me that this could be smothering. I know I am smothering in the way I am so needy for attention. And how emotionally reliant I am/was on my spouse. But to love too much? Funny part is, now that you've mentioned it, she's eluded to that fat many times. I never picked up on that. Not sure I can "give less". IT feels contrived in a way that's contradictory to a healthy relationship. Having to guard or filter one's self seems to take the emotional purity out of the entire thing. But maybe I'm just too idealistic in this way. I'm thinking I am. I do tend to have a very "fairy tale" or "old school" way of looking at love and commitments to people.

And I have, at times, felt I give more than I get. I also am starting to think this is my lot in life. I've given more than I've gotten from every important person in my life just about. Even our parrot, who's now her's I guess... I very rarely got impatient with him. My wife... woudl flip out and scream and carry on at him constantly. Now, he's annoying as all hell. Very needy. I relate. She does not I guess. But she gets all the love, and cuddles and kisses, while I literally get bit. Everytime. And bleed. The one time since the split I got to see him, he bit me within 3 minutes. Hard. I'm used to being bit by the ones I love... Does that mean I change who I am? Become even more bitter and cynical? More introverted? Hide further behind the walls? Or do I accept this is my place, and that the world desperately needs people willing to give more than they get because we are really rare. And without those types, the world will have a hard time going on because everyone is take, take, take...



I agree 100%. Except, even though it may appear that way, it's not what's going on with us. There was a time she was very giving. And I wasn't very receptive due to the depths of my depression. I made a lot of mistakes in making her feel ineffectual. Like she wasn't enough for me because I had the need for some guys to hang around with and do guy stuff with and it made me depressed. And my best friends dad died, which was like losing another father (mine walked out at . She went on for a few years being very patient with me, and her patience ran out. I've known for awhile just by instinct that things were bad. That she viewed me poorly. That she didn't love me much anymore, at least in a romantic way. So I've been really trying hard to get that back and have been going maybe overboard to do so. I was trying hard to fix something that had long been broken and didn't know how else to.



I did not know the extent of her mental problems. Or anything close to it. She didn't When we met she was 22. Most people don't have a full grasp on those type things until later in life. Which she's discovered over the course of our marriage. Some very painful things she's discovered. And she's guarded too. SO many things about her I didn't know until way later. Not that I would have done things differently, but it would have better prepared me to avoid some of the mistakes I made in dealing with her over the years. I did think I could help her. Maybe not "fix" her, but help her be supported enough to realize she can be loved. She was extensively emotionally abused by her father. She was the victim of online predators when she was in her early teens because of the need for male validation and support. Anyone she dated before me treated her badly and broke her heart quickly. She's always had bad body image issues (which is a shame because while overweight, she's a cute girl...). I figured by being kind, loving and showing her that not all men are like that and judgmental and mean, that it'd make it easier for her to accept certain things, like how you look, are less important than who you are and how you treat people. She never could accept that. She is just not capable.



Well, yes. She has every bit of leverage right now. I know this. My choices are to engage in a power struggle (a point of contention in the past) or to let her fly the plane and hope she doesn't crash the whole thing. I feel like right now, if I don't let her be the pilot, and this isn't all about her and her needs for awhile, I'll lose her for good. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take yet. I know I have to draw a line at some point for my own sanity. Unfortunately, the only way I think I could ever close the book on us is to move on to someone else. My mind is too crazy for that right now and it'd be a disaster, even if that's what I wanted to do right now, which it isn't yet.

I've attempted to take a step back with the texting, as often I'm the one who initiates it out of lonliness, boredom, and separation anxiety. But these interactions always become too intense for her, and thus counterproductive anyway. Plus they make me depressed. So I'm trying to not initiate texts with mixed success. Some days, I just can't help it.



There was a time she did treat me that way and I didn't appreciate it the way I should have. I also, as I eluded to earlier, try to avoid breaking things down to having to be even all of the time. It feels like wasted effort to me, because the bottom line is, I'm needy , and if that means giving more than 50% to have people around, then that's what I feel I need to do.

I was also raised by a single mother. She didn't teach us a hell of alot about life as it pertains to education, finance, etc. But she always tried to raise us to be good men, good human beings. And it's stuck. Unfortunately I've been raised with an outdated set of values. Most women my age and younger do not value commitment, loyalty and honesty the way that they used to in generations past. NO longer are many people looking to love as a lifelong thing, but as something until I get bored of it... and so what if it hurts you in the end because it's my life and I gotta do what's right for me so... sorry.

Thank you for responding. I don't mean to sound argumentative, I just also like to make sure the record is clear because that's the sort of person I am. I am no saint, and not at all free of responsibility here. In many ways, I feel I'm currently laying in the sh***y bed that I s**t up. I'm not laying in someone else's s**t.

My wife is a very, very atypical woman. Which has been both awesome and incredibly frustrating.

I read your story and it killed me. I wish I could offer helpful advice because were both feeling the same but I cant think straight.

I wish you the best man

Thanks for reading it though anyway man. At least you know I'm not bullshitting when I say I get alot of some of the stuff you're dealing with.

Well I've had to revive this thing for an update...

After a long conversation via text today, my wife has disclosed that she is fully ready to proceed with a full divorce and no longer loves me in the ways necessary to continue a marriage.

It amounts to basically what I've been saying in part. She's too damaged. I did too much too change her view of me in a negative way. There's nothing left to be repaired. It's actually over.

While I expected this outcome, and have a small part of relief getting to the end result I felt was inevitable anyway, I am battling descending into a new depth.

I was still clinging to the idea that if I could only change the right things, could only convince her to give me one more chance that it'd work out. We felt so meant for each other at one time. But, I guess that's what everyone says at a time like this.

It's so heartbreaking. I'm almost more sad for her than I am me. She's giving up on herself, not only our marriage. She has so many issues mentally, and is unable to form meaningful bonds with anyone. But is very compassionate in ways and had always been rejected. She needs comfort even if she doesn't know it. She's naive about people an their intentions. And about how others perceive her. She's going to have a rough road of loneliness and disappointment. While I may have my flaws, she will not find another man like me in the ways of devotion. I don't believe many of me exist. To some maybe that's an undesirable thing. I will find someone to whom it is not.

I am just so broken here and know that since the conversation literally just ended, I have days of decent before I reach the bottom if this thing. This is just so sh***y.

Beaky, I feel heartbroken reading this, so I can only imagine how you feel. I don't know who you have to talk to, but please feel free to PM me if you need anyone to talk to/listen/etc.

Thanks man, I appreciate that. I really don't have many people, and the one person I actually do have, is so mentally troubled and psychologically worse off than me that I'm limited in how much I can lean on him. He'll listen for hours, but also got kids and too many responsibilities. My parents are here, and I have been pretty private to them about it. I can talk with them, but my mom gets way too emotional, my stepdad has made huge strides in being supportive, but isn't a naturally wired nurturer/listener/helper. More a, lets not make things a big deal and go on like life is marching on... which is really helpful to me because I fall to pieces and am trying so hard not to.

I may do that. I'm probably going to drink myself into a coma now and call out tomorrow. If I need to vent anything I'll be sure to take you up on your offer. Thanks again for really honestly trying to help. You're a good person.

It was screwy of her to text you, then talk about divorce. Sounds like sort of a gameplayer to me. Why did she text you? It doesn't make sense to me.

I understand your heart was invested in her....and I understand why you feel you must drink and call in tomorrow.

I've been in similar situations. The thing I do, amid the pain, is to try to see what you went through as a learning experience. And to realize the growth you went through even amid the "mistakes" you've made.

There's a whole world out there for you to explore. Away from the confines of this woman who texts you for support, even though she's planning to break your bonds.

Please try not to let drinking rule you. No person is worth destroying yourself.

I wish you could do something that really gives you pleasure tonight---that is not self-destructive.

No person should ever cause you to hurt yourself.

What really gives you pleasure?

Heh. Not many things. Alcohol drugs and sex pretty much man.

We've been texting, but I've usually been the initiator. I really just wanted to truth if the truth was she was really over it and just being cowardly... and that's what I got.

She's a confused and hurt person. There;s just no other thing to say.

Are you interested in history?

Are you doing better this morning?

Hey Beakybird, how are you?

Just a thought: I hang out in two different cultures, who although they have a lot in common, are extremely different when it comes to the question of love and self-sacrifice. It seems this question is central to your life. I don't think you can just operate yourself of a central character trait, but you might modify it.

If I was to talk to people in the more individualistic of these cultures, about self-love, they'd nod in recognition and be all for it. In the more community-oriented culture I'm sure people would just consider it narcissistic. Yet people in the second culture consistently show a lot more self-respect and ability to say no to harmful behavior.

Wanting human contact and someone to love is not an addiction. It means you are human, and that you are alive. It is only when this wish is so strong that all other needs are subsumed by it that it becomes harmful. I don't know about self-love, I've never managed to understand what it is. However, when you do love someone else, you inevitably get to the point where you harming yourself harms the other person. Is it possible to have a relationship without reaching this conclusion at some point? I am sometimes hard on myself; when I realize this, I think: "What would I say to a person in my situation?".

Does your wife make you feel better or worse about yourself?

About learning from experience: I totally agree with you about wanting to learn something from this experience. There is a special kind of hell that is created by having horrible experiences and learning nothing from them, which forces life to repeat the lesson. However, we are all born immature. When I think of all the stupid s**t I did when I was 16, for example, I can hate myself for it - or I can just say that I was 16 at the time and all 16 year olds do stupid s**t. Similarly, most people f**k up a couple of relationships. Is it possible to say to yourself that both you and your wife had a lot of troubles, and that you weren't able to deal with it together? Learning is good, blame not so great. It seems your wife has her own road to walk. There may be little you can do about that.

Hope you are well, and that this made some sense.

Actually I sort of am. I can get into some ancient history. It's not really something I can lose myself with.