Is Suicide Wrong?

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Of course I have. I've had suicidal thoughts & experienced severe depression for months on end. I haven't just read about it in a book, I've been there, done that, & lived to tell the tale.

For me, it comes down to one very very powerful force of nature.. Love. My love for others. For my youngest God daughter who has been a shining light in my life for the last 7 years & counting. And for my closest friend. For my other God kids, nephews, close friends etc. But mainly for my youngest God daughter & my closest friend of the last few years or so. I'd endure anything for them, including my own personal hell. I'd be at my breaking point and just close my eyes and think of either of them and it gave me the strength to carry on trying, obsessively, relentlessly.. to figure myself out and get myself better so that I could be more to them.. so that I could show them by my words and actions how much they mean to me. Can't very well accomplish any of that if I took the easy way out, now could I? Plus I know I'd have left them absolutely heartbroken. I know that even when I felt my most unlovable that I was in fact loved very dearly by the little ones in my life. When I couldn't find any meaning or value in myself, I found it in others & my love for them and that's what kept me going at all. It's also gotten me through many difficult situations, too, ie long days of hard labour outside in the rain & snow - if it were just up to me and my own power I might have said "F this, I quit!" but when I'd picture my loved one's faces my thoughts changed to "I can & will do this for them, so I'm going to. I only have to make it through one day at a time, one hour at a time." It's hard for me to want to do it for ME, but it's EASY for me to want to do it for them. Like I said earlier in this thread, my motivation at my darkest times was definitely my love for others in my life.. now, it's shifting to be more so my love for myself now that I have a higher sense of self worth.

It is an action.

No. But it's just very sad.

I am trying a new medication as we speak, but thus far everything I've tried for the depression just has bad side effects...so far this one does not so maybe it will help some without causing problems, at the very least it does help me sleep and seems to lower my over-all anxiety level like the stuff that is unpleasant but not severe enough to warrant a dose of Valium which I also have a prescription for. I do find cannabis helps the depression specifically and can also help anxiety, but its not helpful for everyone has varying legal status and all that.

Also I am trying to figure out more nutrition stuff, obviously if there are ways I could change my diet that are within my budget that would help I would not be opposed to trying it...but when the anxiety and PTSD is acting up I might not really be able to eat much, and I have not found a good like liquid alternative....I also can not swallow those horse pill vitamins but in my case I may need some sort of side supplement since sometimes I have no appetite to eat but will still be able to drink something without too much discomfort. Of course that is at the moment, when the depression is at its worst i really don't have it in me to put much effort into anything even things that could potentially help. So I try to do as much as I can when I am feeling a bit better so I don't fall quite as deep into the dark abyss every time the depression hits.

I do take the occasional epsom salt bath, usually more for sore muscles or when my skin is all itchy which happens quite often in the winter....but I know it has detox properties too to help rid the body of nasty little impurities, I imagine in that sense it also maybe can help cleanse some mental baggage.

I guess the way I see it is in the end do those people depend on you for their well-being? I suppose part of my perspective is something that does get said in therapy and what not....basically I learn in therapy I cannot attatch my well-being to other people....so I'd assume that means others should not attach their well-being to me. I cannot be responsible for the emotional state of other people any more than they can be responsible for mine....excluding direct situations where someone harms another in such a way it hurts their well-being. If one kills them-self they are doing that to them-self not other people....granted other people who care would be hurt and could have a hard time moving past it but I suppose I don't see how a depressed/suicidal person is responsible for that. clearly in that state you can't deal with your own crap let alone everyone elses. And I certainly don't see suicide as an 'easy way out' nothing is easy about trying to off yourself....it looks like the only choice its not like there are a number of options, suicide being the easiest at least not when I've been in that dark place its like it is the only option and i have to fight to convince myself to get to an ER....I suppose if love for people I care about was enough to keep me going through even the darkest times I would not need hospitalization when suicidal to keep from attempting.

Glad to hear you're trying something new to see if it works for you. I still smoke weed, but more because I like smoking weed vs. self medicating necessity.

If you're interested in re-reading my story and the diet portion, you might learn a few things about what I ate (and didn't eat) on a tight budget that worked well for me. I drink quite a few hemp protein shakes & often add turmeric to them. Cheap protein, omegas, and the turmeric is a natural antidepressant/anti-anxietal/anti-inflammatory. It's cheap when buying it in ~2lb bags at Indian markets. Not a "tasty" drink, but I drink 'em down because they're so healthy for me. If you're not up for re-reading it, feel free to PM any specific questions and I'd be glad to answer to the best of my ability.

Also nice to hear you use epsom salts for their various benefits. Consider doing that more often, or using them in a lotion on your skin regularly. It's just one more thing to try and see if it works - and if it does, it can work wonders for very very little money.

I agree that codependence on others for happiness isn't a good or sustainable thing. I admit to being so, especially at one point, and my friend very kindly and appropriately pointed it out - and that was a great trigger to set me off on learning not to be codependent on him or other friends for happiness. I've done a pretty fantastic job of it over the last few years.

I don't really consider my love for others quite the same as codependence. It feels.. different. They make me feel so good with their mere presence in my life & I like to be the sort of friend to them that contributes positive vibes to their lives vs. being a burden or an energy drain. So, I've worked on myself quite a bit and now that I'm a lot more "whole" and balanced myself, I can contribute positively to their lives when we interact & I quite like that.

I'm sorry I snapped at you earlier. It was the way you replied to that other thread I started that set me off. You misconstrued a bunch of things and sounded very flippant, ignoring the point of the whole thread. My complaints in that thread weren't about eating healthier. I'm open to that.

I was upset about a particular woman who was particularly pushy about her beliefs. It wasn't just normal diet stuff either. She was an anti-vaxxer. I couldn't express any skepticism without her getting angry at me. Believe me, I tried to be nice. She was extremely dogmatic and pushy. I thought we could be friends, but it turned out we couldn't. I was extremely hurt and disappointed. Then you barged in and completely bashed me, telling me I'm not trying, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm open to improving my diet, but doing something as extreme as what this girl was insisting I do just didn't make sense. Believe it or not, being a picky eater is part of autism. I'm not sure if you have that trait, but I do. I can remember growing up being constantly forced to eat foods I could barely get down because the flavor or texture was utterly repulsive to me. I couldn't just "get used to it" or whatever people expected. If I don't like something, people better believe I don't like it. If I do change my diet I have to find alternatives I actually enjoy eating first. I can't just cut out ALL pasta, ALL bread, ALL diary, etc.. as this woman was INSISTING. Not without it increasing my misery to an intolerable level and making me not want to follow through.


I've tried probiotics and didn't notice any difference. Maybe I wasn't doing it right. I'm not sure what foods contain salicylate acids. If a certain food is causing problems I should notice some kind of correlation. I don't really notice any. Pasta doesn't seem to make me feel any worse than meat.

The big thing I notice is feeling much worse on cloudy days in the winter. I got my blood tested and sure enough my vitamin D was low. It was low even though I was taking a 2000iu capsule every morning for two months prior. It says 2000iu is 500% daily value but that appears to be BS. Apparently my body doesn't actually absorb much of it. I increased it to 4000iu and noticed I felt a little better. I want to know if I can increase it more, but I'd like to get my blood tested again. I can't do that immediately. I have to schedule it.

I'm currently changing from Effexor to Zoloft and Wellbutrin. After being on it for four years, the Effexor no longer seems to work and I can't increase the dose any higher without feeling nauseous. Unfortunately Effexor is a hideous drug that not only makes me feel nauseous when I increase it, but also when I decrease it. I've been told to decrease it this week for a week and I'm already feeling more depressed and nauseus.

So there. I'm trying a lot of things. A lot of them suck. Effexor sucks, but four years ago I decided to try it anyways. I was reluctant, but I caved in and tried it and it helped a bit for a while. Now it doesn't seem to work anymore and the side effects are awful, both trying to take more and withdrawing when I go down. I can't win. I try things. I get frustrated. I can't make too many changes at once or I have no idea what's actually working and what's just a coincidence. It's even harder to sort out as I have random up and down cycles even when nothing is changing. I have an up cycle when I get a new video game to entertain myself with and a down cycle when I get bored with it. I get an up cycle in the spring and summer when I'm looking forward to hiking in the mountains. I feel like crap when hiking season is over. I just don't enjoy other forms of exercise nearly as much. It's all a chore in comparison to being in the mountains.

To say I'm not trying anything is just flippant and inaccurate. Sometimes I get frustrated and vent. I notice this is a common thing. I express any kind of frustration and people jump to the conclusion that I'm "giving in". I'm tired of that, so my response to those people is now f**k YOU. I don't just dump on random people either. It happens in places that are supposed to be for support.

Anyways, I don't disbelieve you, but at the same time I don't know if what worked for you will work for me. Also, some things are a lot easier to try than others. I prefer exhausting the easier things first instead of torturing myself further with things that make me more miserable in the short term. I can change my diet some, but going full Paleo sounds like torture to me. You're not the one that was insisting it. It was this girl who I had assumed would be supportive. I was supportive of her when she was complaining of things, but when it came her turn she didn't do the same. It was all one sided.


I'm sorry for saying that. I went and invalidated you because you seemed to be invalidating me by telling me I was giving up or not trying, just because I'm not yet "cured" like you are. I can't deal with that.

Apology accepted. Clean slate. My apologies if the tone of my post came across as flippant or ignoring the point of your thread. It wasn't my intention.



Gotcha. I have grown a pretty thick skin having posted here about dietary changes and the benefits I've experienced over the last year and having a lot of people not believe me or tell me I'm nuts/lying/wrong etc, so your post didn't do me any harm. People around here are coming around to the idea of diet & natural medicine more and more with each passing month and news articles coming out about Autism treatment studies w/ probiotics etc. But yeah, I'm used to skeptics - and I get that it was her you were annoyed by.



Excellent to hear! Small incremental changes are better than no changes if you can't manage to do a massive dietary change all at once like I did. Progress is progress no matter how small.. the compound effect adds up! It's just like anything else, like working out and building muscle - Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

I never had any serious food issues. I can only think of one food in my entire life that I couldn't eat due to texture as it made me gag - Quaker flavoured instant oatmeal.. gag me with a f*****g spoon! Other than that I've eaten everything, including my veggies, all my life.

I did cut out all of those things and was able to do it all at once, but I also haven't really eaten dairy much at all since I was ~12 and had previously cut out gluten.. so I didn't have as far to go. Maybe you just need to do things in increments vs. cold turkey? Whatever works for ya.



From my research and experience, probiotics can be futile IF your gut bacteria are greatly imbalanced already like mine were. Basically, you just send them to their death because the overgrowth of yeast/fungal infection/bad bacteria has taken a stronghold in your gut. So, probiotics can't exactly work their "neurotransmitter" magic on your digestive system if they're dead before they get to the right spots of your digestive tract. That's why I went on such an extreme diet & cleansing protocol to kill off bad bacteria first and foremost for so long before introducing probiotics.

Salicylate acids are plants' natural pesticide and preservative. They're in almost all fruits/veg/herbs/spices & especially high in GMO versions because the SA's are boosted sky high for those two properties - keeping bugs off crops and the shelf life long. Some foods are far higher in them than others and if you're sensitive to them should be avoided for a while.

If you have never read my story, feel free to pm me and I'd be glad to email you a copy. I go into a fair amount of detail of everything I've learned, done, and why and what it's done for me.



I take a vitamin D pill or two every day w/ my vitamins. It helps.



I took Effexor for a few years. It helped for a while when I needed it. I also took Dexedrine for a few years. It helped at first, but in the end contributed to the digestive problems that exacerbate neurological symptoms. I haven't taken any pharmaceuticals for more than 2 years now.



Glad to hear you're trying a lot of things! Even if all you do is rule out which ones don't work for you, there's value in trying them!

Yeah, I've had my ups and downs, too. Three Summers ago when I was losing my f*****g mind & going through the worst depression of my life for 5 months, I went on a lot of hikes in the mountains.. every Saturday that August I trekked 40km on my feet from the suburbs to the peak of Grouse Mountain, back down to the city for the fireworks, and then back to the 'burbs to crash. Nature is a fantastic anti-depressant.



I didn't mean to say you weren't trying anything. I just think that if people haven't tried everything yet, then there's still more to try - including natural medicine & extreme dietary changes, even if they're implemented in stages over time.

BTW, you can tell me "f**k You," over and over as many times as you like and I'll still reply to any PM's if I can help out with something I've done/learned. I get that being frustrated is being frustrated. I've been there. I've lived it. I've told people to f**k off. But I'm passed that now and it all seems like a distant past life to me now. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just saying, as a matter of fact.. my life feels that good these days.



That's great you don't disbelieve me. I don't know if it will work for you or not, either. There really is only one way to find out if you're open to it.. and that is to try it - or some of it - or all of it in increments you can manage. If you're going to try what I have, start with the easiest that doesn't even require dietary changes: epsom salt lotion on your skin. Or foot soaks in epsom salts.

Massive healthy dietary changes aren't torture to me. They're a means to an end, and so I can do them. I do what I Need to to get what I Want. (Health.) I've done some workout/diet programs in the past that were pretty strict and was able to stick to them, so I was able to do this, too. I consider myself lucky that I have that sort of ability wired into myself. I acknowledge that doing those things isn't as easy for everyone else.. but nothing worth doing is easy. Some of the stuff I eat is pretty bland, or actually not good tasting.. but the results are worth it for me. Yeah, every once in a while I treat myself with something like some chocolate covered almonds, but I try not to overindulge too often.



Apology accepted. Again, I didn't meant to imply that you were giving up or not trying. Perhaps someday you'll feel as good as I do, via whatever method - whether by benchmarking what I've done or figuring out something else that works for you. I hope so.

Anyways, again, if you haven't read my story as posted here 13 months ago feel free to PM me and I'll send you a copy. I'm open to discussing it with anyone who'd care to learn from it and see if what I've done benefits them, too.

Also, I'm not sure what part of Western Washington you're in.. but I live 10 miles North of the border in BC. If you're ever up for meeting in person, that could be arranged.

if i had a depressed friend I'd try to take them places, take them to a gym, go on walks, go hang out with them. just telling them to stop being depressed and continuing with your life isn't helping them. i think for most people its about irritating their life slightly. suicide of a friend shows they aren't in 100% control of their world.

I'm just about done with life, its too much and I'm all alone. they won't even bother visiting me so why should I suffer just so they won't feel bad. if you don't care enough about a person to see them why should it bother you if they kill themselves except that you couldn't control that part of your life?

To me, suicide goes against my whole personal ethos about enduring through the worst problems in my life. It's just a cowardly solution.

When I was very depressed I wanted to see friends, but I didn't want them to see me like that. When I did see them I did my best to keep my s**t together and not be depressing. I didn't want to burden them with my darkness. I did a fairly good job of it most of the time. I didn't do a perfect job of it with my closest friend, and then when I got really bad I avoided him for a few months and he avoided me - and we both knew why. I was OK with not seeing people while I was in that state and never thought "why don't they want to hang out with me?" - I knew damn well why and accepted it. In fact, like I said, I avoided them too because I didn't want to bring them down. I wanted to be better so that when we did see each other it was positive for both/all of us. I don't see the logic in expecting friends to want to spend their time with someone who is severely depressed as it can bring them down. I love my friends too much to want to bring them down. That's my 2 cents. YMMV.

well that's not how I feel.

and on the other side I'd rather be brought a little down to comfort those I care about.

I also would want to be around a friend who is depressed and not avoided.

And I liked the old WP where I could look at a posters profile and see make or female, sometimes age etc. Now I wonder, are is wanting to comfort and be comforted more common in women and girls?

This is the problem I have with depressed people who "get better". You show negative judgement towards your depressed self. I can't show negative judgement towards myself. It's painful enough without that. I'm not going to have friends who don't accept me as a person. Honestly, talking to someone like you is a good way to make me suicidal. I try things and often they don't work. I go through hell. I can't deal with judgement on top of going through hell. It's like kicking sand in the eyes of someone who's already down. Being alone all the time is one of the things that harms me. Going out and seeing a friend even though I'm depressed is a form of "trying". My problem is I don't have anyone who can see me frequently. It would actually help a hell of a lot to have friends. You're lucky you had some friends, but people who will reject so easily aren't good people. They're selfish. I can't keep judging myself and hiding my pain and telling myself everyone else is better than me because they're happy. That's utter insanity. No wonder you were suicidal. I'm done with blaming myself. I don't deserve it. If someone isn't good to me I blame them.

It's toxic male culture. Guys are generally even more isolated than girls because they're not supposed to show emotion. Guys are more likely to end up homeless and more likely to kill themselves because they're generally less cared for.