Should I renounce Christianity?

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Perhaps the self righteous hypocritical ones are.

However, Jesus told His disciples one time:
“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16 NIV

I think Deltaville was speaking metaphorically, though. As in you seem to enjoy poking at people and stirring up controversy and meaningless debates.

Truth is, no one ever debated me into being an anti theist. And no one ever debated me into being a Christian. It was on my own choosing, willingness, and reasoning on both accounts.

So I would agree with it being rather pointless to try and pull me away from my faith. I would recommend you go outside and take a nice walk. Or perhaps spend some time doing something constructive like making music, painting, or even helping out in the community in some way. At least these things provide me with a positive outlet. Thought it might work for you as well.

Of course the best advice is to seek God with all your heart. But since you are unwilling, there are still more constructive uses of your time and energy at your disposal.

See ya later guys!

I mostly post here during the week, at work, while I'm waiting for something to calculate. I could show you designs I've made that would blow your mind, if only they weren't trade secrets, soon to be products. I also do art, and go for walks, and sometimes even help out the community. I can multitask. I have been influenced by on line debates, and the work of atheist authors, so I don't think it's a waste of time, except the audience here is limited. How do you know I've never sought God?

It's too bad Christians are more often as shrewd as doves and as innocent as snakes.

Splendid indeed. And I never doubted your intelligence or talents. I guess that explains why you seem to have time to post quite often on the matter. Sounds like you are an engineer of sorts. I really believe that engineering is very much an art. I do engineering of the musical kind. Though I don't really do complex math and what not. That's a bit above my skill set at this point in life.

I'll PM you a song I've been working on with some friends, because we are not releasing it to the mass public just yet (so keep it between us, please).

It is a waste of time to try to keep bringing up a debate with someone who doesn't want to debate the issue.

And I was content to leave your comment alone until Deltaville responded. Jesus Is a legend, a living Legend.

But after seeing the hornet comments, I felt I had something to say on the matter.

Whenever a person tells me specifically "they don't want to talk about it" when I share the Gospel... you know what I do? I leave them alone on the matter.

But notice in general how I've become silent on the "Do You Believe" thread. At a certain point, all the debating is no longer spiritually beneficial. So I simply stopped. Also, you had made it quite clear that you did not want to discuss my life testimony and the Gospel. So I left you alone at that point. I gave you that respect, if you remember.

Some debates cannot be won by words, but only rather in the heart. So I leave it up to the free individual to decide on where they will place their faith after reading everyone's input.

Now, if you are trying to convince me of something other than Jesus, it will be a waste of your time. My faith has even increased since I started debating on that other thread.

Also, I don't know whether or not you have sought God. Have you? What are you saying?


This is perhaps one of the few things I would agree with you on. Nothing drives people away from Jesus more so than snotty hypocrites who deal with people harsh when they should be gentle and vice versa. And don't even live according to the Scripture and Savior that they claim with words.

Then they get bad attitudes when they're called out for their sin. And they'll slander, gossip, and spread hatred. It is most unfortunate when people who are violent, or drunkards, or gossips, shamelessly claim the faith... as if Christ's sacrifice is some kind of excuse to remain the same.

But what do you expect when a false Gospel is preached throughout the land. The message of the cross had been long forgotten. Grace has been reduced to little more than a license to sin.

Here's what Jesus has to say to these phonies:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 NIV

People like that use to motivate me to remain in unbelief, and to hate God. Now it motivates me to be a Christian who strives to be true to the faith.

I must go and work on some stuff. I'm moving to a different house in a couple of weeks, and am making preparations.

Nice to read those pros and contras of believing in God
It is even now in The Haven, so I guess it is allowed to complain a little
Been talking to someone lately about it; all the NT predispositions are at display at this forum: atheists, christians, even gnostics (-bishops)
But where is the ND-uniqueness. We can all conform to some atheist or christian group, but aren't ND's non-conformists?

Even Aspe, he seems to be the most productive on this forum. But even so, you can be an atheist, but what if you can't include the divine into your theory (not the existence of it, but the experience of it). .

I feel pretty, pretty bad about the threads on this forum going on and on and nothing new coming out of it
Anybody, anyone, trying something new?
if not, I'm dead.

I'm open to the possibility of a materialist, technological divinity. Something so advanced that we would mistake it for magic.

No, that is a stereo type that is fairly new. In fact there are many ND's who try to conform to societal standards. Sometimes their symptoms are so severe that they end up failing at it quite often. Some give up, some persevere, and some rebel against standards... just like millions of NT's do.

By the way, Jesus's sacrifice is meant for everyone, NOT just NT's.

Furthermore, all the non conformists are conforming to "non conformity". They think they are cool, or something special, when in reality, mankind has been doing that forever. There is nothing new about non conformity.

Everyone is conforming to someone, or some pattern, be it society, counter culture, religion, or conforming to your own way of living... which is actually conforming to what most people do in this world anyway.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Romans 12:2 NIV


By definition an atheist does not believe in a divine spiritual being (namely God). An agnostic could however have a theory of divine experience, and yet never have a definite resolution to the question at hand. They are open to the possibility of God, basically. But they don't have a solid definition or decision on the matter.
You want something new? You won't find it in this world.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 NIV

I'm in the same boat as you, though, as I'm also looking for something new. Specifically, this promise from God:

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13 NIV


And let's not forget:

However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” — the things God has prepared for those who love him—
1 Corinthians 2:9 NIV

There's so much more to knowing and experiencing God than some stuffy, asceticist, social club with a sermon on Sunday mornings.

How would it be if you were able to have an eternal spirit dwelling inside you, teaching you new things about yourself, the world, and the things of Heaven everyday?
Have you ever entertained the thought, or lived in this way? If you did, wouldn't that be a "new" experience for you?

Just some things to consider.

I did find ironic, for Westboro to be criticized, for claiming that homosexuality is exported to patriarchal countries at gunpoint. People from those countries come here to kill homosexuals. Then, patriotic militaria goes on display.

Atheists, and even philosophical Satanists, still tolerate Christianity, to extent of using the Bible for figures of speech, like Paul Bunyan and the Easter Bunny. They just say it represents good citizenship or some tenet of humanism.

And, it's possible to have your own beliefs on the Bible, without belonging to any mainstream denomination, ie. non-denominational.

One of these pastors, just yesterday, refused to be dogmatic, with me, about dispensations, predestination, or any nameable, Christian doctrine, whatsoever.

Thanks for your reactions guys, that will help me through the weekend - a weekend with or without God
These two things I'd like to react to:

"I'm open to the possibility of a materialist, technological divinity. Something so advanced that we would mistake it for magic."

This sounds a little bit like utopianism.
Once I liked Utopia. My favourite writer is Platonov, a Russian writer. He wrote a book Tsevengur, about an utopian communist society. But Platonov was a very sensitive person, he saw were the flaws are. Everything was fine, there, in Tsevengur, until the day that a child died. They could not help the child. Even though they achieved great things by technology, this was out of their league, and then somehow the whole utopian project collapsed. One of the main characters in the book, a man called Tsjepournyj, tried to find some arguments to defend themselves, because they kept the child alive one day extra, but judge by yourself, quote from the book:
"Tsjepournyj is convinced that he could bring the child back to life, because, as he says, "Communism and the whole of nature work together here. In another place he had died last night. That extra day that he lived, he owes Tsjevengur, I tell you! "

Still something could be divine - maybe I cannot find it out today, maybe next weekend

"By definition an atheist does not believe in a divine spiritual being (namely God). An agnostic could however have a theory of divine experience"

I would suggest that an atheist could believe in a divine ("great") experience, but not a divine existence / being;
an agnostic could (even) have a theory of divine existence
For me the experience seems enough