Compulsive joining and desperate search for identity.

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I posted this in General Discussion first but now think that perhaps this post is more appropriate here. I would like someone to help me figure out how to deal with these feelings and how to perhaps counteract the negative effects of what I have done in the past, if any. Because after a talk with a friend yesterday about this, I can't reconcile the feeling that I have been a fraud for a lot of my life. I don't know how else to describe the behaviours listed below, but I feel horrible about them, looking back. I wasn't told that I'm autistic until much later in life. Not knowing this earlier has caused me to constantly make a fool of myself and put myself into situations where I didn't belong because all I wanted was to find a place where I did belong.

I have been a compulsive joiner all my life. I have had absolutely no social conscience and let nothing hold me back from joining random clubs and groups just because I wanted so much to find a place where I belonged, make friends, and learn new skills.

In the past, I have joined a debate team at university, a math club, Toastmasters, several sports teams at school (where I was only able to stay on the swim team for the entire year). I've also joined a Myers-Briggs discussion group back when it was my special interest (along with going to several forums and even meeting up with a group from there). I have also attended an anxiety support group along with a friend who has the diagnosis (just out of curiosity) and even went to an ADD support group after someone on here mentioned the possibility of ADD (but I didn't end up coming back). I have briefly joined the asexuality community because I was sure that I was asexual until I met autistic people.

In short, I am notorious for joining groups where I don't even belong. I am so awkward at debating, the fact that it was a university club and I wasn't even a student at that university and I ended up going to a completely different university in the end made it like I was just a completely random, weird stranger who joined the debate team who went to a few meetings, and left. The public speaking went well, but I am too busy to continue being a member now. The math club was a similar thing; I am abysmal at complex math and the problems discussed in the math club were extremely difficult to the extent where even my math tutor had no idea how to go about them. While I have definitely improved my math skills as a result, I still feel weird about having been the idiot among the geniuses yet trying to make it seem like I could contribute as well (I tried contributing but I don't know how much exactly I ended up embarrassing myself). With the ADD group, I left with the message that I was "diagnosed with Asperger's and not ADD".

I can't help but feel immense guilt for doing this. I have not made a single friend out of this prior to me being told about my AS because I never did really fit in anywhere in these groups, thus only making a fool of myself further. I am afraid now that if I contact someone at the university where the debate club was hosted about autism-related matters (which I did), people will recognize me and I will not be taken seriously because of my past.

It's true that I am a bit of an exception in that I am autistic and extroverted at the same time. I believe that it is my extroverted nature that led me to reach out to all these things. I don't know if I am asexual anymore because I do experience perhaps a crude form of sexual attraction when it comes to autistic people. Being around autistic people has normalized me in the most unimaginable ways possible. So I feel like a fraud in thinking that I was different and trying to put labels of myself while in the end I am really just like everyone else except for my autistic traits. And now, I fear that when people do recognize me from the past and I do disclose, they will think that I am crazy obsessed with labels and "autistic" is one of my latest labels. And it's true - I did want to find my identity in the past and understand what I am good at, but I repetitively ended up being faced with the painful feeling of not belonging anywhere I went. I wouldn't stop trying to find myself in the past. Even though I have found my niche now, I am faced with a painful aftertaste of my experimentation and a fear of a tarnished reputation and I don't know what to do about this.

Last edited by MathGirl on 05 Dec 2011, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not sure where the guilt comes in--you didn't hurt anybody by trying a few things and discovering they didn't suit you. In fact, that's a normal way for young people to behave in their quest to "find themselves".

Hi Mathgirl,

Perhaps the best thing you could do is to list activities or things you enjoy doing. Once you have a good idea of your likes, you could make a list of things you don't enjoy doing or find boring or blah or whatever. Sounds somewhat simplistic, but at the same time, if you do not understand what makes you you, you're going to keep ending up doing things you don't enjoy. What's the old saying? The definition of insanity is doing things over & over again, but expecting different results.

For me, the activities that I most enjoy are being around animals, photography, & the outdoors. Wish I would have understood my favorite activities many years ago. It sure would have made my life less chaotic, & more fun. You're not always going to please everyone else by sticking to your choices, but ultimately, it's about you being happy & content in life with you! Now I am working with animal rescue groups taking photographs of pets that need forever homes. I feel much better about myself than I ever have. It only took me about 30 years to figure out me! That's too long! Don't make the mistakes I have!

You're 20...you have many more years to do the things you enjoy without trying to be something you're not. Go for it! Don't feel guilty about past mistakes. We learn from what we try. No one has all the answers, & sometimes you'll be on the fence about something until you actually experience an activity. But a list will help set some basic guidelines. It doesn't mean you can't try other stuff that's not on your list either.

Tomboy

With the anxiety support group where you're attending out of curiosity and also to support your friend, that's a little dicey. That can end up being taken the wrong way. One way is to not say much if at all, and maybe only go a couple of times for the sake of your friend and let your friend take it from there.

With the other groups, I would take a deep breath and try and cut yourself some slack.

And with groups generally, I honestly think it's one out of nine groups that works out, where a person has some beginning friendships or potential friendships which may or may not work out. (The leader is trying to do the minimal amount to discharge his or her obligations, other members may or may not be overpeopled, etc)

The question might become, how many times can a person visit a group before it becomes awkward and they should either join or not? I don't know, it's feel and texture, but one thing, I think it's okay to attend once too many or even twice too many. That a person can dance slightly behind the curve so to speak and that's okay.


I attended weekly seminars at a nearby university on planetary geology. At first it was bracing, but then I was kind of treated as the weird person. This one post-doc student from Europe in her late 20s I think liked me even though I'm in my 40s. I wasn't sure I liked her. Maybe that's the point of low-key dates like coffee and so forth to see if you like someone. I don't know, but I kind of felt there needed to be a little more at the beginning. So, I'm unemployed but I love these kind of intellectual conversations and I kind of come at it my own way, but then I'm viewed as kind of the weird guy. And these seminars are kind of, sort of open to the public, but not really advertised and that makes it awkward, too.

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 05 Dec 2011, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it just comes from the fact that I fear being perceived by others as uncommitted and all over the place. It was a very typical pattern for me to join something, find that I don't belong, and then leave. Also, in all of these places, I acted like a smartass who totally belonged there. I tried to make myself look better than I actually am because I was eager to fit in there.

That's true. I was beaten into trying to explore other things because of school. I struggled to prove to myself that I am normal and am capable of doing everything that an ideal student can do if I just worked hard enough. I've always had narrow interests but I tried my best to distance myself from them because I was led to believe that it was bad to have these fixations.

I want to beat myself out of this now, but it's difficult. I still hesitate to talk about them because the conditioning has been so deep. I'm really working on it, though.

I will no longer be joining things like this unless they really have to do with a special interest. I am fully confident now that the only label that is appropriate for me is Asperger's. I will now only engage myself in autism-related pursuits as this is obviously where I belong and it has become my narrow interest and passion.

Perhaps paranoia about the negative effects of my past compulsive joining is not realistic. But yet I can't help but wonder why my communications with some people are often ignored, as though there might be some negative rumor about me going around.

Mathgirl, the only person you can ever fix is you! The other thing is we are hardwired a certain way. We cannot change that nature about ourselves. Even NTs can't change what makes them an NT. We have to work with our hardwiring, not against it. Your SIs are something you need to embrace unless they're harmful or destructive to you or others. You are unique...Aspergers just adds to the uniqueness that makes you you. Don't fight it...it only makes things harder for you.

If people are telling you to change you....they're doing you a disservice. I turned myself into a pretzel trying to be something or someone that I wasn't. All that does is erode your confidence in you. All the years of psycho-therapy have done is leave me more frustrated (too little time, too many issues to cover from years of trying to be something I am clearly not), & with less money. (Not saying here that psycho-therapy is bad, just that I haven't found it to be personally helpful.) Like I said, make your list as a guideline to what you enjoy. It's not a box you have to live in, just a stepping stone for things you like. You will have to experience things that might be uncomfortable from time to time, but that's how you figure out what you like or don't. You're only 20, you have lots of time & years ahead of you.

For instance, I used to spend a huge amount of time in shopping malls. It's taken me many years, but I finally figured out I didn't enjoy going to the mall. The whole atmosphere is very uncomfortable for me, even for a short time. So now, I just don't go...those who enjoy being there are free to go. I wouldn't stop anyone who wants to go. I'd just rather spend my time far away from all the activities & craziness (noise/crowds, etc) that seem to thrive there.

Tomboy

I kinda get we're your coming from. I'm one of those "outgoing but odd" AS people (well actually DXed NVLD, but it's similar) for me, I learned I'm never gonna fit in anywhere. I can't really even fit in here, as my NVLD is kinda different from what other people have going on here. For me, it's been more a struggle to define myself by the things I do, not by the groups I associate with. I learned pretty early on that groups + me = not work. So I try extra hard to do really awesome cool things, but keep distant from groups. I don't know if it's a good strategy, but... I do it. So, it's something different to try, to define yourself, by your accomplishments and things you do, rather than by "where" you belong.

The thing that really helped me was as I got more Christian, I realized my priorities were better used to please God, not man. So, I don't have quite so much like, guilt from not fitting in and whatever as I used to.

I always knew what I like to do, but I couldn't stand the fact that I didn't fit in anywhere socially and all I got from people was ridicule and disrespect. I think that I really wanted to be part of a group because I do have an intense desire to be around people and to feel needed. Yes, I could do things by myself for weeks, if not months, but there is no use for constantly producing without being able to contribute to the society with these products somehow. I do have an immense need to share and I also wanted to be part of something so that I could feel more safe. I've always wished I could have friends in school so that they could protect me from the bullies.

I didn't feel this need to be with people as much when I was a little kid. I've developed it as a result of exposure to the society. Social interaction and being in a group is nice if it's the right kind, in the right doses, and with the right people, but it took me a while to find the right people.

Last edited by MathGirl on 05 Dec 2011, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I like this!

Believe me, I get it, I've been in plenty of groups in my life, and all seemed to end in failure and making things worse. So now, I figure just don't even try anymore. I try and try and try, but eventually my weirdness gets the best of me regardless of what I do, even just things I'm not even conscious I do. So now, I've basically just said f**k it. I don't mean it in a way of "argh I hate everything I'm a nihilist now!!" sorta emo kid way, but....insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. I feel like I don't even care about society anymore, I barely ever watch the news anymore. I used to be quite absorbed politically, but now don't care anymore. I sit in blissful ignorance of politics now, and instead of watching political news, radio, etc, like I used to, I sit in my own world listening to my girly eurodance. I just sorta stopped caring. I don't know if it's good or bad, but it's what I did.

As far as feeling safe, well, I'm a guy. Girls are always weird and like having companions with them when they go anywhere for some reason. I never see girls my age just like, going to Walmart alone, they always need a posse or at least another female friend or in most cases their boyfriend to simply buy things from Walmart. It's really odd to me. My sister refused to do a lot of things just because her friends wouldn't go with her, which I just found really odd, me I used to call my friends, but 90+% of the time, they wouldn't wanna do stuff with me, so I just stopped calling them and just do pretty much everything alone. But, for feeling safe and protected, I just started working out and putting in time with a punching bag. Kind of an odd way of looking at things, but from my personal experience, it's what makes me feel safe. And among guys, no matter how you look at it, physical might is king. By relying on others for protection, I feel powerless, and I don't like being at someone else's mercy, so I learned I must rely on myself for protection, both in words and social contexts, and if it ever comes to it, physically.

As far as social groups go, do you get along with older people? Me, I find I get along much better with adults than I do teenagers and people under like...25. My old church, I had a falling out, as basically I couldn't relate to the youth, and the youth pastor was insistent on me "hanging out" and like, forced "love" from the youth, and it simply didn't work for me. I find the youth completely unrelatable. So, now I go to an Orthodox church (a lot of reasons behind that besides this, though) and most of the people there are older and I'm a lot more comfortable. For some reason, older people I feel like a fish in water with, even if they're like 50-60 and I'm 20. But my own age, I can't relate and never could. In high school when I was a freshman, for some reason most freshman get crap from the seniors, but seniors were always the nicest to me and freshman were always douchebags. I don't know, if you're similar to me, then you can try just hanging out with adults. It's odd too, in my one sorta kinda social activity I do now, ice skating, I mostly talk to the adults at the rink and am quite outgoing to the adults, but I'm not outgoing to the teenagers and college age that are there. Oh well. It's a thought.

Good luck I guess. Sorry, my post is probably much more depressing than helpful. Oh well.

It's really, really hard to stop caring when all you want to do is to do things for others. If I don't, I feel like a waste of space. People work to bring me food and clothing, so I have to give back to the world in some way. That's the way I see it. So I don't think it's a good idea to give up completely. You just have to find out where you belong and what you are good at, so that you could use your abilities effectively in order to make a change in the society that you want to see. I always try to scramble for new ways to break through and fill in voids in the way things around me are going. Perhaps it's just not in my nature to give up. I believe that everyone should try their best at using their strengths for the greater good.

I am physically trained since I would always defend myself physically in elementary school. However, I went to elementary school in Russia, where the rules on physical violence in school were not nearly as strict as they are here. After I've immigrated to Canada at the end of grade 6, I could no longer use physical force to protect myself. The one time I punched this kid in middle school because she was getting in my way and all I wanted was to get out of the darn noisy and crowded cafeteria, I was nearly suspended from school for a week. The principal couldn't believe that I couldn't verbally defend myself against an elementary school kid, but it takes social skills I did not have (and probably don't have even now). Ever since, I've always wanted to have someone by my side as a witness so that people could believe that I am not at fault. Someone who understands me.

Yeah, I do talk to older people in university now. I have found my social circle at this point, which is either people with ASD or older people. But there's still that tinge of regret over me trying to shove myself in the past into social groups I did not belong to in the first place. Perhaps worrying about people finding out about my past activities is irrational, but I still can't help but feel paranoid about it considering how many times I have tried to network with people only to have it come to a dead end. I have no clue if that's a normal trend, but I look around and see people who *are* successful and *are* getting through and doing things. So I wonder if there is some piece of information that everyone knows about me that makes them avoid me like plaque, and if my history is that crucial piece of knowledge.

I'm kinda familiar with that. More what I meant by physical might, girls can't really "look tough" and not get picked on, whereas guys more or less can. My big problem was my transition from Christian school to public. Christian school, you'd get like, a stern talking to if you hit someone, but then in public, yep, suspended, expelled, arrested, that sorta thing. Yay for the grass being greener on the other side in America, the Brave New World. Do you think if you were to stay in Russia, your life would be better? Speaking of Russia, do you like this song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx6LjEx6qd4

As far as places to help people, well I try to be as helpful to people as I can, but I try to do it in concrete ways, like teaching people stuff, helping them work on stuff. Usually, it's on an individual basis, though. Like I'll repair someone's car, for example. As far as social groups, I was going to a really social group kinda church, but I didn't fit in there, as much fervor as I had. I have a feeling, too, that those kind of churches became much more about having a group identity rather than growing in the measure of and fullness of Christ. Now, actually, I'm going to an Orthodox Church, OCA, Orthodox Church of America, but we're in communion with Russia and we're started by Russians. I feel a lot more comfortable there compared to my old nondenominational Protestant church, so it's maybe an option for you if you want a group, they'll probably be like "NO WAY A REAL RUSSIAN PERSON?!" I mean no fireworks and explosions and youth pastors riding a motorcycle, but I'd rather have a place I'm comfortable in than have super action packed exciting church. That, and you'll be able to help people at a church, and serve God. I mean, I don't know your religious views and whatever, but it's a thought.

Not now. Russia is another extreme. Teachers don't care about their students being bullied and sometimes would even go along with the teasing (I was victim to that). When the whole class once laughed at me during a lesson when the teacher has stepped out for a bit, I ran out straight to principal's office to complain that I couldn't stand it any longer and the principal told me that she couldn't do anything about it. That's how horrible the school staff were. I wish I could have gone to an ASD class, though, They have one here in Ontario, but in another city right beside the one where I live.

And as for the song... That is the song of my childhood! My mom used to always sing that song. And yes, I do like it. It's techno-ish and Russian techno is the best.

Yeah, I do that too. I would love to do tutoring or be a therapist for a living. But I really want to help people with ASD now because I can relate to them the most and have the most insight into them.

I see your point. Yeah, I am an atheist/spiritual, though. It is a well-kept secret as I rarely tell people my religious orientation. Moreover, I find it kind of difficult to be around NTs in general nowadays, not that I have anything against them. So I stick with my aspie group and do things there... and I do often find myself very occupied with things within this group. I also volunteer for my university disability council and am on board of a non-profit autism organization. I am pretty satisfied with it for now, but sometimes I try to venture outside of this circle and advocate to a wider sphere of people (all NT) and it mostly ends up in disappointment.

I see your point. Yeah, I am an atheist/spiritual, though. It is a well-kept secret as I rarely tell people my religious orientation. Moreover, I find it kind of difficult to be around NTs in general nowadays, not that I have anything against them. So I stick with my aspie group and do things there... and I do often find myself very occupied with things within this group. I also volunteer for my university disability council and am on board of a non-profit autism organization. I am pretty satisfied with it for now, but sometimes I try to venture outside of this circle and advocate to a wider sphere of people (all NT) and it mostly ends up in disappointment.[/quote]

See in real life I know a total of one person with diagnosed Aspergers, he's actually specifically got NVLD like me. I know one diagnosed Aspie in online I talk to often, and another online I talk to very occasionally with NVLD like myself. Rest of people are I guess dreaded "NTs." I'm 20 now, and didn't get diagnosed until I was almost 18, so yeah.

As far as church, you know, if you find your views changing or whatever, I'd recommend an Orthodox Church. Theoretically, you don't gotta talk with anyone and you can just see the Divine Liturgy and leave. That, and there's not many young people in Orthodox churches these days.