DOES THIS QUALIFY AS A SYMPTOM OF ASD?

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Hello everyone. I am brand new to Wrong Planet. I am a gay male, diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome only 2 years ago, and rather late in life (I am now 61 years old), by Dr. Joel Jeffries of CAMH Adult Psychiatry and Health Systems here in Toronto, Canada, whose conclusion was that I am “definitely an Aspie.” Like many Aspies my AS was worse in childhood and I learned coping skills over the years to deal with some my social deficits, as many adult Aspies do. When I first took a look at AS symptoms, they read like a laundry list for my childhood experience. As an adult I still retain symptoms that set me apart from NTs, such as prosopagnosia, hand flapping/clapping, rocking, problems with voice modulation, inability to multitask, difficulty with any activity that requires bilateral coordination, clumsiness and problems with balance, a seemingly infinite capacity for and obsession with anger and resentment (which I suppress unless totally alone), inability to adapt to change, disliking touch unless I have asked for it or am prepared for it, social exhaustion (or social hangover), among others less pronounced. My “special interest” is the paranormal, a field which I explore with forensic obsessiveness; over my lifetime I have filled 6 filing cabinets full of file folders on this subject and the rest which are not in boxes pile up in high stacks upon the floor of my apartment, threatening to crowd me out of my living space―you could say I have my own personal X-Files.

I also have a problem which I am hoping that others in this community can help me with. This problem does not fit neatly under the categories of hyperlexia or delayed echolalia, though it might fit under some manner of qualified definition of scripting. I simply cannot express my feelings in my own words, be they written or verbal. But if I see my experience expressed by people other than myself (including other Aspies) in a book, on television, in films, on the internet, or elsewhere, I memorise it instantly and quote it word-for-word to describe my own feelings. I am utterly incapable of expressing these emotions in my own words; the words never come and I just feel helpless. Nor can I by any means rethink or rewrite what I have read, seen or heard “in my own words”―I just draw a complete blank no matter how much time I spend on it; the words never come, ever, under any circumstances. Another reason for this is that I find in the words of others a most perfect expression of what I am feeling inside, so even if I could re-express them in my own terms (and I know for a fact that I cannot) nothing I could express would be as perfect as the perfection I have found that is the work of someone else; I could not improve on the perfection I found in it, and nothing else could do so. It “strikes a chord in me” for want of a better term. As a result, all the expressions of my feelings are nothing but a series of verbal and written plagiarisms. I wanted to ask the community, other Aspies here, anyone with ASD, any parents or professionals here, does this qualify as an AS symptom? I have Googled it to no avail, searched the medical and ASD websites to no avail. I cannot seem to find anything like it anywhere. Unlike true scripting, I know very well what the words signify (or else I would not be able to relate to them at all).

Note that I have no problem expressing myself with material that has no reference to my emotions, so that I can write about simple factual biographical details and incidents easily enough, which is also true of my special interest. I have never had a problem with factual information. But this absolute and total disconnect between my emotions and expression, this finding of how I feel inside―truly feel―only in the words of others, has it any correspondence with ASD? I very much appreciate the help that anyone can give me. I would also greatly appreciate any references anyone could give me on this problem in the clinical ASD literature, if any such exist. Thank you.

Being unable to express your feelings sounds like alexithymia, which is common in ASD.

It sounds like Alexithymia to me. I think it's pretty common in those with ASD. I personally have no trouble with it, so I cannot tell you what it feels like. When they tested me for ASD, they asked me questions that seemed designed to ascertain whether or not I had this problem.

Edit: I am wondering if you have tried non-verbal ways of describing your emotions? Perhaps through visual arts or music? It may allow you to express how you feel without "plagiarizing" others' descriptions, and it may make you feel better as a result.

Thank you so very much for the replies. I appreciate them very much. As you know, AS is famously underdiagnosed. I did not even know it existed until about 2 years ago. It so happened when I was telling my psychiatrist (who is treating me for depression) had his interest piqued by some of the descriptions of my childhood experiences. Once I saw my own experience mirrored in AS symptoms (especially in childhood) I frantically read everything I could on Asperger's. I read all I could find in the clinical journals. I read about the experience of other Aspies. I took every single AS test online. I watched online documentaries interviewing Aspies. I finally got a referral to an ASD specialist. And now here I am on my first ever ASD community website. My diagnosis has opened so many existential questions and challenges for me that I have felt a bit overwhelmed. I am desperately trying to find out "what makes me tick". I question every single behaviour I exhibit asking myself "Is this representative of ASD?" I think that no matter how much I learn about Asperger's and myself, there will always be more to learn. This journey will be a permanent work in progress. Thank you again for assisting me on my journey.

Hi, from a fellow punk-rocker!

I too am only recently diagnosed with AS (at age 45), and while being evaluated, was identified as also alexithymic. Although it manifests itself slightly differently for me, I found your description very evocative - that same sensation of a jigsaw piece falling into place when a description of the emotion comes from some external source.

I'm rather short of time right now, unfortunately. However, I noticed just yesterday this WrongPlanet forum thread [http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=275111] discussing this very subject which you may find worth exploringl.

Unfortunately I have no musical talent and as far as visual art goes that is mostly limited to drawing dinosaurs when I was a child. But describing my emotions by either of these or any other non-verbal means would miss the mark. I do not need to express my emotions for my own sake. The problem arises when I need to describe my emotions to others (particularly NTs). Art and non-verbal expression are entirely dependent on the interpretation of the recipient. Were I to do that through art or any manner of non-verbal or symbolic expression there is limitless potential for the recipient to interpret it entirely incorrectly or even as the exact opposite of what I intended to mean. That could be an unmitigated disaster. Being properly understood (especially by NTs) is difficult enough. Words are very precise and leave much less room for interpretation and thus the best way for me to get my message across. Thank you very kindly for the suggestion, though. I do welcome all suggestions. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I struggle with the same issue. If someone asks me to describe how Asperger's affects my life or how it presents itself, I would not be able to readily do so. I need to see someone else express my feelings and experiences in writing such as your own post, and then relate to it, because I am not able to translate my feelings or emotions into words that others can understand on my own.

Often if a doctor will ask me what I am struggling with, I have to come with a prepared typed out statement, which is a plagiarized collection of others experiences which I personally relate to. I am able to slightly alter/personalize them and express them in my own words afterwards though, depending on the situation or emotion I am trying to express. I often find using analogies and examples to describe my feelings better than words. I find the easiest form is to show the person a clip of a video which mirrors what I am going through and what I am trying to convey to them, often from pop culture, television shows, movies, etc. I love the invention of the smartphone and youtube, which allows me to use video clips as analogies practically anywhere I go in a readily and easily searchable form.

Thank you for making this thread btw, so I can understand what I am feeling by using the words you and others have posted in this thread.

I really feel for all of those here who have alexithymia. I never realized how it might affect someone in daily life. It sounds like it must be very frustrating, and I now realize how lucky I am to not have this difficulty in expressing my feelings and emotions.

I'm wondering if there is any relation to alexithymia in certain people and difficulties with only written or spoken language in relation to describing emotions. This makes me curious to know whether learning something like ASL might bypass some of the difficulties. From what I have read, the condition is not entirely understood, and may be caused by several different factors.

Of course, this also would require communicating with others who actually understand ASL, which would limit communication.

The situation described there is indeed familiar to me.

The process of spending hours cogitating over speculative situations, the pacing like a trapped tiger (usually on tip-toes for me) and other stimming - sometimes for hours on end - have been a very common feature of my life ever since childhood. It gets a lot worse if am am confused or angry about a recent event in my life, or the way I've been treated by someone around me, but can't put my finger on the right response, or what the emotion is that the event evokes. But sometimes it can even be about an event that happened to me decades ago, or one that I project happening a long way into the future.

The more 'visceral' kind of revenge fantasy is very uncommon for me, though I have experienced that on rare occasions (almost always to do with stopping people from making so much noise.) More often, I'm fantasising about somehow being able to make interactions with other people work in my favour, instead of always feeling that I'm on the back foot because of my limited situational awareness. After an event, I can always picture 1000 ways I could have done better, and try to project them forward to every new situation that I see coming up. I'm working on the 'scripts' I'm going to use, trying to work out every possibly reaction the other person would have to those scripts, trying to work out a script for each and every one of those possible reactions... - and so on to endless iterations.

And just as described - it is usually all for nothing. The situation in the fantasy rarely occurs in real-life, and even if it does, the other people involved don't have copies of my 'script' to follow. A minute into the situation, and all my forward planning goes out of the window - which makes me angry with the other people sometimes, I must admit, even as I know that is irrational.

This is probably the biggest part of my life that I'd like to improve. If nothing else, the constant procrastination is both exhausting and wastes so much time that I could use more productively.

And thanks for posting that description, I'm really glad that you did. I had never made the connection between alexithymia and all those hours of angst, wearing tracks in my carpet. It's a very interesting idea that I shall definitely be examining further.

Yep that's alexithymia, unable to express your emotions and also to read people's emotions.

I have that too especially anger , I can't express it or know the other person is angry. Emotions are simply delayed and analyzed after that.

I believe that's something to do with emotion negligence as a child. Therefore we suppress our emotion expressions and needs for extensively amount of time.

there's a chart that helps you learn vocabularies of expression and emotions.


"
The situation described there is indeed familiar to me.

The process of spending hours cogitating over speculative situations"

It's this habitual thing call living in the head . It just doesn't goes out or act upon.

I think sometimes that the "living in the head" is like a drug addiction. It is easy to imagine that the fantasy inside my own head is where I will discover how to interact with others more successfully. I still do it even though I know this isn't true, and it has no influence on the real interactions I will have. If it is some kind of "coping mechanism", then it has become a very dysfunctional one.