Feeling alienated from this country's politics

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beneficii
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29 Oct 2016, 12:44 am

When I started reading about the citizenship-based taxation used by the USA (I live in the USA and am a US citizen), about how expats must file taxes, and some of the forms are quite onerous (more onerous than anything stateside), and then about FATCA and how now many foreign banks don't want American clients, expats' relationships with their families are becoming strained, and many foreigners don't want to enter into partnerships with Americans anymore, because of the onerous reporting requirements under that law. It was meant to go after "fat cats" running away with their wealth, but it's been hurting middle-class and working-class expats and "accidental Americans" (people that were born in the US or have US parents, and are thus citizens, but they've lived in the US for only a short time at most).

Of course, this isn't the place to debate the issue, I just wanted to establish the context of where I'm coming from. For a while, I've been a proud Democrat and social progressive, but since reading about all this tax stuff in the past week, especially considering it's the Democrats who were making it worse, I've been feeling alienated from most politics lately. Like I see all these political debates going on, over what one candidate said, this report that came out, or something said something stupid and offensive, and it just looks mechanical and, frankly, ridiculous.

I feel disgusted when I read the stories about how these tax laws affect our expats and accidental Americans, and I find it very disturbing. It's hard to describe, but these events are giving me this anxiety, and I'm having a hard time even seeing myself as part of this country anymore, and now I believe I should work to get off disability, get my transition stuff done, and get out of this country, lay low, naturalize, and expatriate (renounce citizenship). Of course, it's a long road, but reading about this crap, especially about how it won't end anytime soon from the looks of it, makes me think that's what I need to do.


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wowiexist
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29 Oct 2016, 12:50 pm

Unfortunately we are stuck in the two party system in which not everyone's views are represented. I have never seen any politician that represents all of my views. It would be better if we got rid of political parties and everyone was independent.



pezar
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29 Oct 2016, 2:23 pm

Wowiexist, read up on the founders' original plans on how elections would work. They wanted no political parties AT ALL, they wanted each candidate to take independent stands on issues instead of following a party platform. That idea was unfortunately DOA, a two party system similar to England's immediately formed.

Beneficii, my plan is to buy some remote land in the mountains of northern California and build a shack to live in and have pens for chickens and ducks, and raised beds for veggies, and have other beneficial plants like Oregon roses for vitamin C and maybe even a Lebanon Cedar tree. I will never be able to flee the country due to my disabilities, but at least I can try to retreat as much as possible.



wowiexist
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29 Oct 2016, 5:23 pm

pezar wrote:
Wowiexist, read up on the founders' original plans on how elections would work. They wanted no political parties AT ALL, they wanted each candidate to take independent stands on issues instead of following a party platform. That idea was unfortunately DOA, a two party system similar to England's immediately formed.

Beneficii, my plan is to buy some remote land in the mountains of northern California and build a shack to live in and have pens for chickens and ducks, and raised beds for veggies, and have other beneficial plants like Oregon roses for vitamin C and maybe even a Lebanon Cedar tree. I will never be able to flee the country due to my disabilities, but at least I can try to retreat as much as possible.


So what? That still doesn't mean the two party system is the best system.



beneficii
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29 Oct 2016, 8:57 pm

I've been thinking more about why this is so disturbing to me, and I think I know why. The implication of this is that the U.S. government owns you, no matter where you go, with the $2350 expatriation fee being the price of receiving manumission. Personally, I value highly freedom of movement, to include emigration, and the right to change your nationality, but it is clear that these are values that the U.S. government doesn't fully uphold, and apparently there aren't enough of us Americans who do uphold these values to change this. By enacting laws like FATCA, the U.S. government is doubling down on this idea that no you don't truly have freedom of movement and no you don't truly have the right to change your nationality, they are very strongly asserting these values in the face of doubt, values which I find an anathema. Because of this strong insistence, I am beginning to feel alienated from society at large and our politics.

pezar,

Thanks for your response. I'm disabled too, but I'm working on my recovery and laying the groundwork for when I can finally come off of it so I don't slip back into disability. When I move abroad, I will do so for the both of us. :D


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pezar
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30 Oct 2016, 7:35 pm

Lady, you've got to realize that no country wants people like us, because we can't pay taxes and are thus "useless eaters". If you find out that your grandfather was born in another country, you MIGHT be able to talk your way in. Other than that, forget it. Citizenship requirements around the world generally revolve around either putting a large (in the millions of US dollars) amount of money into the stock market or having a really rare, in demand skill. If you don't have any of those, you're stuck. Fortunately, the US as currently formed is a REALLY big place, and going "off grid" is somewhat doable.



beneficii
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30 Oct 2016, 7:37 pm

pezar wrote:
Lady, you've got to realize that no country wants people like us, because we can't pay taxes and are thus "useless eaters". If you find out that your grandfather was born in another country, you MIGHT be able to talk your way in. Other than that, forget it. Citizenship requirements around the world generally revolve around either putting a large (in the millions of US dollars) amount of money into the stock market or having a really rare, in demand skill. If you don't have any of those, you're stuck. Fortunately, the US as currently formed is a REALLY big place, and going "off grid" is somewhat doable.


I'm confident that I can make emigrating work, and the feedback I get from people who know me well agrees with that. Basically, I don't see myself as being disabled for the rest of my life: I intend to recover and start working again. And even if I can't, at least I would have tried, right?


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TheSpectrum
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30 Oct 2016, 9:53 pm

Many well wishes to you and your path to self sustainability.
The two party system doesn't encompass everything a modern person would like to consider and it keeps Democrats voting Democrat and Republicans voting Republican.

Maybe you and some friends could go off grid as pezar suggested. Then you will not most of the complications currently plaguing citizens.


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beneficii
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03 Nov 2016, 3:26 am

My views are still the same as before. It really is pretty horrible what we're doing here. For example, U.S. expats often can't open retirement accounts without them being taxed heavily, due to the incompatibilities between U.S. tax law and the tax law of the country in question, making it to where expats often can't benefit from it, putting them at a disadvantage compared to other people living in the same country. Why are we trying to disadvantage our expats? It makes absolutely no sense to me, and the only reason why this is going on is probably stubbornness, this is the way they've always done it, and by golly they're going to keep doing it this way.

I'm looking at different countries I can immigrate to. Canada's out, because it often disqualifies people with certain medical conditions, but Japan and Europe are still in. In Japan, as long as you can work and you don't land with some dangerous communicable disease, you can immigrate there; and interestingly, the medical standards for naturalization are simply you can support yourself or you live with a family that supports you, but are stricter for permanent residence. Japan, though, strongly prefers skilled labor.

Europe's more complicated, but there are countries I can move to as long as there is some skill I can provide.

This makes it important to really take a hard look at where I want to go with my career. I have been so ambivalent about what career I want to do that it's really been harmful to me, and I think stunted my career development.


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