Confused, blue and a bit depressed after argument

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A bit of history...

My son was officially diagnosed with ASD around 2 years ago. After doing a fair bit of research into ASD, we found it that there are some links to it being hereditary. So of course I did an online test and scored well into being High Functioning Autistic. My official diagnosis is to happen very shortly. Although both myself and my wife have very little doubt of course.

Well, after having yet another argument over some trivial issue, we are going through all the same issues yet again. I'm not understanding things, I'm assuming things, I'm always disagreeing with everything, I'm not empathetic enough in my apologies, I need to do things differently, etc etc etc.

I appreciate that living with a partner with ASD for so many years without knowing has been very difficult and trying. I feel very hurt and angry that I've not been able to show the level of understanding, empathy, and emotions that she deserves. I would really love to learn better ways to be able to do that for her. I love her with all my heart and it hurts me a great deal to see her hurt like this.

The more I see what is being done with my son in terms of teaching him how to interact and "fit in" in "normal" school and the more I hear that I need to learn the right social queues and take on board more strategies to cope in both my relationship as well as society, the more its dawning on me.

Generally speaking its pretty much accepted that Autism is simply a different wiring of the brain. We simply function differently. Because we are the minority, we are labeled as not being the norm. Therefore its us that need to learn how to behave and act in "normal" society.

If we are simply different, and people are aware that we are different, why is it that we need to change EVERYthing to fit in with the NTs? If NTs around us are knowledgable on Autism and they are aware that we have Autism, why can they not adapt to us as well as us adapt to them. Seems to me its kind of a two way street.

I feel like everywhere around me I need to be aware of peoples feelings and opinions. What they perceive as being the "right" thing to do. Its such an enormously exhausting job to try and react and behave with the "right" responses and ways. I can understand why ASD people feel so isolated. I feel very alone and isolated at the moment. People around me know my son has ASD and change their behaviour accordingly, but that same respect doesn't seem to apply to an adult. Adults seem to have to be able to deal with their "problems" and over come them. Now i'm not saying that we can't adapt and learn ways to deal with our issues, but are they really OUR issues? Shouldn't it be that the rest of the world needs to learn how to deal with their issues also?

All the research I read is all about the Inability to do this... or the lack of that.. It all seems to be a problem or an issue. Yet they go on to say we are simply wired differently. If we're simply wired differently, then it shouldn't be seen as an inability or a lack of something.

I'm probably just ranting on at the moment, but i'm just a bit very depressed as all I'm reading everywhere is that and ASD person has very little chance to be in a loving relationship with a non ASD person. Everyone's experiences are very bad and negative. There doesn't seem to be many stories out there of loving and successful relationships.. Its making me feel like ours is doomed already. I don't want it to be. I have two wonderful kids with a third on the way, I love my wife so very much. I can not imagine my life without her.

I know that I need help with lots of issues, and I'm currently looking for a support group as well as getting officially diagnosed. I'd also like to find a counsellor that has a great understanding of ASD and would be able to help me and my wife both to learn how to deal with each other.

I know that she feels very alone and that she doesn't have her husband to lean on with lots of things. I also feel very alone. She understands ASD, but I don't feel she really understands me or what its like to HAVE ASD. So she can not help or respect what goes on for me. Made doubly hard by the fact that I can't seem to express my emotions very well. So I can't let her know what goes on for me.

Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I just wish people would stop seeing us as "broken" and needing to be fixed, and more as just different. Allowing us to be who we are without the need to teach us how to be NTs.

Those of us who would like to learn some more NT like behaviour, will ask for it and will look for people who can help us with that. But not all of us want all of our behaviour changed. Its very hard work to keep that up and we also like to be ourselves sometimes..

Sigh! there you have it.. I hope all this makes sense to someone. It sometimes doesn't even make sense to me.

InBrissy

I have a bit of trouble with long
posts, but from what I can see,
I'd have guessed that you are more
likely an aspie than an HFA.

Anyhow, this is a damned good
place, and I hope you enjoy it
here.

Hmmm yes. I have had some similar experiences myself. Judging by the way you have phrased things, I believe that we both perceive certain challenges in a similar way.

I think this comes with the territory when you are diagnosed a bit later in your life, as I have been (relatively speaking, of course).

PM me if you would like to have a chat, mate (I am also in Brisbane).


Brendan

think of it this way
how do people perceive (excentric) comedians...?... professional commedians are able to take the complete piss out of themselves on stage and everybody loves them no matter how messed up they are or excentric they are, and people laugh and accept them still.

if you laugh at yourself for everything you cant do, and then make an attempt to correct yourself, people wont see you as 'broken', but quirky.

whats the most craziest/socially ret*d thing you've done? is it still on your mind?



Ahh they probly just misunderstand it.. they see your face.. think your normal and treat you like that

I'm of the opinon that, ASD or no ASD, in a relationship, communication goes two ways, not one. There are plenty of NTs, I'm sure, who don't have stellar communication skills either, but for different reasons from why a person with an ASD would have communication problems.

I sometimes think that a lot of people are more interested in getting their point across, and calling it communicating. I've always been told that communicating is give and take, not one person giving, and the other person taking.

I think that if another person feels that they haven't been heard or understood, they're more inclined to try to push what they're saying and minimise the listening. This leads to arguments. One thing I've been trying to do that's been effective has been to try to rephrase and repeat back what the other person is saying. It takes them off of the defensive. "I understand that you have done this, and that you feel this way for these reasons, and that must be difficult." It lets them know I'm listening, and that I've understood, and it seems to make the person more agreeable to hearing a difference in perspective. It takes a bit of work, and it requires a bit of time sometimes. I actually have to sit down and think analytically in order to understand how the other person feels. I've been doing it for a while, so I've gotten fairly quick about it, but it's not instinctive.

I also find that it helps to simply tell people that I need them to tell me up front exactly what's going on, what they're feeling, and why they're feeling that way and to not do it in a frustrated, or confrontational way. This is that other side of the two way street. It seems simple enough, but it seems to be a significant challenge.

I'm under the impression that the more a person automatically guages someone else's emotions, the greater is the indication that the other person genuinely cares. In the case of relating to someone with an ASD, this doesn't necessarily apply.

I read an article somewhere about parents and children, about how parents struggle with their children who have ASDs because the parent hasn't accepted that the child isn't, and will never be, the person they were expecting. I wonder if this applies to partner relationships, but in a different way. When I first told my significant other about AS, he really pushed that it was a drastic assumption made by a medical professional who didn't really know me. I was very upset. After all, I felt relieved to finally have a context, and he was trying to take that away because I wasn't really the partner he'd always thought he'd had, a conclusion I came to after weeks of thinking about it. After all, besides being a little "eccentric," and "hard to get along with," I seem pretty normal. So it must be that I'm "not trying." It can be very frustrating when you are trying, and people think you aren't.

I think, though, this applies to the self as well. It's hard to sit down, face myself, and say, "I'm never going to be able to be what I'm supposed to be, no matter how much I try, or how much I want to be that for other people." After a lifetime of putting effort into "fixing," the number of things wrong with me, I'm finding it hard to turn off my own attitude of wanting to "fix" myself because I've also realised, after a good deal of thinking, that maybe someone else's desire to fix me is aggravating my own difficulties in accepting the aspects of myself that were always fed to me as "failures and limitations," things I've learned through experience to feel ashamed of. They aren't those things at all. They just mean that I'm a unique individual who lives in a world that functions in an entirely different way.

I suppose the best way to put it is really in the context that a person with an ASD really does think differently, and that any counselling, or therapy, or treatment of things isn't going to change that. A person can learn coping stragetgies, ways to meet others halfway, but the other party has to recognise that halfway takes effort, and they need to make an effort to meet the other person halfway as well. A lot of this, maybe, has to do with letting go of expectations.

It isn't easy. Relationships of any kind take effort, and have challenges. When ASDs are involved, it simply makes it more challenging, not because one person is defective, but because both people are different from each other. In some ways it's like marrying a person from a different culture. Netiher person is "bad," or "wrong," but there are going to be things that need to be learned and understood by both people.

One positive way to approach things is to take the concept of "problem" away completely. I don't like the word "understanding," either. I like to think of it as exploration and discovery. Exploring and discovering yourself and your own needs, as well as the self, and needs of a partner. I often think of these things like a sort of inter-personal archaeology. Instead of "I want to understand you," it's easier for me to look at the other person and think, "I want to learn you." Learning is something I'm very good at, after all.

I've found that things between my partner and I stay positive because of this attitude of learning. Learning means you can ask questions, and occassionally make mistakes, and that the mistakes will lead to a greater knowledge of the subject.

Usually, I think communication breaks down when there's a sense of right, and wrong, or a sense of winning, and losing. Blame is never helpful. Those things should be avoided in all communications, not just ASD/NT ones.

I've thought many of the things you've said before. "Why is it always me that has the problem and not anyone else?" I'm not trying to give advice, really, since I can't stand advice. I suppose I'm just explaining some of the ways I've been trying to understand interpersonal conflict, and some of the ways I've really been trying to cope with the differences between me, and others. It's frustrating to be older, to not have the support that younger people do (AS was added to the DSM-IV when I was 11, long after people had given up on trying to understand my "problem") in order to learn how better to navigate a strange world from the perspective of a member of a strange minority.

Give yourself credit for being willing to put effort into your relationship to make it positive, and for having the desire to seek out support groups, and for seeking a counsellor who understands ASDs.

I wish you the best of luck with your relationship, and with finding support.

Thanks for all the supportive words.. It helps just knowing there are people like me going thru the same crap..

At the moment i feel like I've been told my whole life how to act and how to be by lots of different psycs and therapist etc etc.. But now I can see that all i've ever done is simply imitate and copy behaviours.

Now that I've become aware of my ASD, I feel like my whole personality has been stripped away. That all the stuff I was told to be, isn't working for me anymore. Now I've got to go and figure out all over again who I am.

I have great difficulty in showing emotion. Showing my wife that I can in a way that is supportive and loving for her. I am finding that very hard. I'm finding it difficult to even let her have a meltdown herself. I feel attacked and hurt by that. Its taken me two years to even get ok with having my 5 year old son have a meltdown.

I was told in the past that saying sorry is what you're supposed to do and giving a hug and validation the other person is whats needed. But because its not something that I would normally do, it doesn't come across the right way.

When this happens I just start going back and forth from being defensive to being angry with myself for not being able to love and care about my wife in a way that really shows her. She and my kids are my life!
I've never felt I belonged anywhere before, but now I feel I have a place. Even though we argue and fight a lot, it still feels so right.

I hope that with my official diagnosis and finding some support groups that I am going to be able to get to a stage where I can learn to show my emotions enough for my wife to notice. But also that she will start to acknowledge some of my quircks. I don't want to call them issues anymore.

Being on here and being able to just blurt out my stuff and for you guys to just listen and comment is wonderful. I've never done that before either.

Thanks

You did not say how long ago it was that you and your wife guessed that you are on the spectrum InBrissy. That could be important for she could just need a little time to get over the shock of having married an autistic person without knowing it. Give her some time and she should come around; you are not asking for too much.

It seems to me that it should be easier for NTs to understand us than it is for us to understand them. All they have to do is listen and take our words to mean what they say while we are supposed to study every part of their bodies when they are talking to pick up singles that contradict their words.

It is not just NTs, all majorities expect the minority to conform to them simply because they can. They are not the ones who are going to be isolated if they don't, so unless they care about the minority they have no reason to. If your wife loves you as much as you love her, that should not be a problem in this case.

Its only been about two years we were aware our son is on the spectrum, so we started looking into my situation. But its only been about a year we've really delved into it.

I know she loves me and I understand its very difficult for her also not having someone who can express their love and caring easily.

Its just very hard knowing she needs that and not being able to give it to her. I've done so many therapy sessions in my life with so many different specialists, but non ever thought about ASD. They all said just believe in yourself, make a choice to do something and stick to it. So thats what I've done. But its all based on the way I've seen others do it. Nothing feels like its mine anymore. It all feels fake!

I want my wife to understand what goes on for me, but she has a hard enough time dealing with all the hurt and dissapointment of having someone that can't give what she needs. That makes it very hard for her to understand me.

I know this and I understand it but I can't be the one that needs to "change" so completely. Its hard work and emotionally exhausting learning and adapting my behaviour to whats considered the "right" thing.

I feel like I also need space to be me! And I don't have that with looking after two soon to be three kids, working and also working on helping my wife and myself be more supportive, caring and loving..

Its so draining.

There are people with AS who have fulfilling relationships...such as Jerry and Mary Newport...It is not impossible..It is nice that there is so much love between you and your wife..I hope you guys work it out....

Thank you sunnycat. We are both commited to work on it. Its just hard sometimes. But yes I hope it works out also.

I guess sometimes its nice to just get it out and rant for a while.. Thanks for listening. and thanks for the support

Hi InBrissy and Brendan! I was raised in Brissy.

Once more I'm speaking for my daughter, who is married to an aspie. He's not diagnosed, nor will he contemplate the idea.

Smelena has just had a second son diagnosed with aspergers today, and it is a big relief to everyone because now she can get some help for him. Both boys attend Tony Atwood's clinic.

She is probably too exhausted at the moment to reply to your post. First one son, and now the second son has been very draining - meltdowns, anger outbursts.. She has had to fight the school system to get support! But I will pm her to tell her about your situation.

It's only in the last 18 months that aspergers has been condidered in the family.

For years she has been hurt by her husband's lack of emotional support - lack of validation. I'm starting to think that the need for validation is an NT thing. But in the past month they have become a team, working together to support their sons. He has even deflected criticism from his family!

They also have a third very charming NT son.

I agree that the NT partner has the ability to understand better than the aspie and that you cannot become NT. You seem the type of person to make a marriage work. Remember that she has to nurture your son, and maybe you too, and that she may be emotionally exhausted.

The main thing about Smelena's husband is that he wants to make her happy. He couldn't understand why she was so upset by his lack of attention on Mothers Day. Logically she isn't his mother. But because he wants to make her happy he salvaged the day.

Because he wants to make her happy, he encourages her to have a few days here on the Sunshine Coast for r&r every so often. Because he wants her to be happy he has allowed her to get the house more comfortable.

You love your wife the best you know how. What a wonderful thing! And you want to make her happy, even if you can't understand all her emotional needs.

Could you write a letter to your wife much like the one you wrote here?
What about taking some time away together? Smelena is arranging that and will tell her husband when when she has finalised it. Maybe your wife will have to do that too.
Why doesn't she join WP?

I thought Greensocks had it exactly. It's learning - much better than 'understanding'.

Both Smelena and her husband work in the city. Wouldn't it be funny if InBrissie and Brendan knew them!

I hope you can work things out. Good luck!

It certainly sounds like she is in the same predicament as my wife. With the one exception that I am getting diagnosed and certainly agree that I have it.

You know, having kids does let you put other stuff aside. The only problem is that once the kids get sorted out, you go back to the crap you had before!

I do know that we both need help and we both need understanding. We have one NT child and one Autistic child. We have a 3rd on the way now.

Thanks for telling your story. It does help to know there are more people out there who are dealing with these issues and that they can be dealt with successfully.

It takes time and effort. Its hard work, but for my family its worth it.

So on I battle.. thanks again to everyone here. I'm really glad I found this place

Hello InBrissy,

It sounds like you and your wife are in the same position we were in about 1 year ago.

We have 3 sons aged 8, 7 and 3. The first 2 have been diagnosed with Asperger's and are receiving therapy at Tony Attwood's clinic. They see Ivy Gomez who is absolutely brilliant!!

I strongly suspect my husband has Asperger's. He participated in a middle management programme at work and had a psychological profile done. I showed this to Ivy and discussed some of his behaviours. She stated it certainly sounds like he has it, but without seeing him she can't officially diagnose it.

We have struggled with the same issues you describe.

Last year I went and saw a marriage counsellor at Relationships Australia. My husband wouldn't come, but was willing to try whatever the counsellor said.

The counsellor was excellent. He told me that I have to specifically ask for what I want because my husband will not know. He said I have to drop expectations that he will know what I want in terms of affection etc

Lack of affection from my husband had upset me for years. The counsellor said I needed to acknowledge other ways he shows love eg when I'm upset he does heaps of housework.

Also the counsellor said I need to ask for what I want. So I did. I told him I want a kiss before he goes to work, a kiss when he gets back from work, and a 10 minute cuddle on the couch in the evening. I wanted him to say 'I Love You' 1/day to me.

So I asked my husband and he did. At first I felt resentful - thinking "bloody hell, he's only doing this because I told him too". Unhelpful thinking I know!

But now I genuinely enjoy this affection from him.

My husband's mantra is "anything to make you happy - you just ask." So I make sure I ask and he obliges (obviously my requests are reasonable).

Sometimes I forget. Like on mother's day I forgot to remind him to buy me a present and he forgot. I had a temper tantrum and he was genuinely puzzled as to why I was upset - after all I'm not his mother. (He had bought his mum a present and given it to her).

I've also read some material about how to have a relationship with a person with Asperger's.

Both of us have made adjustments - I'd say 50:50.

And now we are happier then ever. I love my husband and couldn't imagine life without him and he feels the same about me. Obviously we still have disagreements but we resolve them quickly.

Have you joined the Asperger's Support Network. http://www.asperger.asn.au/HomePage They will have details of support groups. Go to an adult one because a lot of the other ones are full of parents of young kids with Asperger's. If you join, they have a large library that you can borrow from.

We've made other adjustments. For example I like going out with my friends and my husband doesn't. I used to drag him along and he'd sit there quietly staring at everyone. He'd want to go home before I was ready. I would get really annoyed with him.

So now I go out on my own with my friends and he looks after the boys. I'm happy because I get to see my friends and have a break from the boys. He's happy because he's spending time with his boys and he's made his wife happy.

Your wife needs to change her expectations. It took me a while to accept this in my heart. I knew it intellectually, but it took months to shift to my heart (if that makes sense).

I think there are many advantages to being married to someone with Asperger's - my husband is honest and loyal.

PM if you'd like.

By the look of other people who have posted, we could have a Brisbane WrongPlanet meeting!

Smelena

Now who the hell told you that people that have two sets of "brain wiring" can't function together in a relationshop? If you read the stuff and believe it, then they're right. That's called being inprinted, screw em. If you were to read the same ass holes most don't think the syndrome existed before they started screening for it, in other words, I'm old wierd and don't pass their tests. I have too many walls I've built, coping skills, they don't even see into my world. Ok, enough about the doc's and all their pretty little books.

My wife also known around these parts as The Wife, SwampBlossom and other words I have yet to use when we're fighting. Fighting? Oh you bet your sweet ass we do, but way less then we ever did. Although that never was really much, we have a few rules. She learned early on it's best to give me space and that I get obsessed with things. Now however, I can much easier tell her the whys of things I do or don't do. Important, the whys of what I don't do. I now can see how my life, my evil ways, evolved. What are coping skills just to make it this long in the outside world. She can now know in a hot second, much better, what is putting me into "meltdown mood". I use that term loosly here, a real meltdown is pretty herendous and a hospital would probably be in order, for me, only happened twice maybe three times in my life. Meltdowns are used rather causely around here. I would call most of them unnerving at best. Anyway SwampBlossom is "NT" which is a BS statement to begin with, no such thing, but for here we'll just say there is. She and I met and fell fast in love, well pretty fast and got married in what to most would be whirl wind, although she had to ask me, I just assumed it would happen and forgot to ask. Well I could go on with this boring little writing and I won't much more, but if prompted to I'll go on for book length, I can obsess about her and all the problems. Sex was one. My lack of doing small things and big around the house. My depressions. My lack of emotional support to her. Need I go on? Well ask and I will. We've been married 17 long and grueling years and every anniversary I ask for a devorce, she won't pay for it and neither will I, so we be stuck with each other.

See here's the thing, not every marriage is going to make it. Doesn't f*****g matter if AS is involved or not, just the lately laws of averages. However you can help a marriage go the other way. Simpley by picking up new terms to explain better what is going on in a persons inner being. You can do that here. Overwhelmed, mind race, white noise, stimming, overload, space being invaded, body language (can read, can't read) (she has a look I can tell in a hot second it means, Get away from me you f*****g idiot. and then she laughs, well sometimes) and many many more. All too often it's only one just one person doing the work of figuring out what these new terms are and what to do with them. can't be helped, can't force people to learn what they don't want. The Wife goes to all appointments with me, when needed. Sometimes I ask her not to, very seldom. She is informed about what is going on at all times. She grows with me. If you don't relate to a counciler or any of the family don't, find another and keep going till all are happy with them. This is a family effort, everybody and I mean everybody. Did I say everybody?

Luck? I make my own. Odds? I make my own. It's what I do that makes my life do what it does, no one else can. I have a positive attitude, well mostly, not all the time. I know there are going to be some rough times and I know there will be times I'd like to be in my cave ignoring the world. There will be better times more often just going through all the intitals here and god there are too many, but you have to go shopping here. AS almost always brings little friends. In my case I have more then a couple. But I can now say Bipolar isn't the main, it may still be there, but less then the official DX. I'm deslixic and have PTSD. Maybe a few others and it can get complex trying to sort them all out and then blending them and figure out what does what. Don't try. Get the main ones and see what can be done there first. Then see if something else is still a problem. Some I'm going to keep, they have served me well, I can do some things other mere mortals cannot, not my fault. KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid, remember it, rememeber it well. Supposed to have been coined by the American Green Berets, dunno. But smart guys to know any good plan is boiled down so even I can't screw it up and I can screw up making coffee many many different ways. Thats' why SwampBlossom makes it for me, she's co-dependent and if I let her, she'd spoil me to death, not healthy for me or her. But I let her do it a little, she likes it and so do I. SwampBlossom and I are functional in our disfunction and never try to step in between, if she don't get ya, I will.

hi Smelena,

Our son goes to Autism Queensland school 2 days a week. Also a great place. He's also been diagnosed at Minds & Hearts.

I'm glad to hear you guys are going through the same stuff kinda as we are. Well I shouldn't say glad because its not nice, but you know what I mean
For me its not so much the hugs and kisses and I love yous, For me its more the showing empathy. When we have an argument, its very difficult for me to show that I care about her side.. I feel attacked very quickly and go in defensive mode.. From there its very hard to see her side and to come back to her to make her feel better and ok and to show some empathy.

This is what causes the most problems for us. I am looking for some support groups through AQ, but I'll definitely have a look at the one you suggested. I would love to talk to some people (adults).

And it just happened again.. My wife just walked in and asked if I was looking at an ASD Website.. I tried to explain what I've been posting here and said that I would like her to read it. The confersation started to drift to a more general topic. Life being much more centered and suited towards me and that she doesn't feel like she has much presence and control over things as she would like.

I started to feel instantly sad about it and can fully understand what she means. I want things to start being more equal and to become easier for us both to deal with. But because I have all this emotion going through me that I don't fully understand, I can't talk in a way that shows her that I care. I have a mono tone voice she tells me, I'm unable to make light of things or to have a caring voice.

I feel like giving her a hug, but that isn't what she wants nor does it work. I just can't figure out how to do what she asks of me.. Its like I just go blank.

So now again I've made things worse. Simply by not being able to give her what she needs to be ok. It tears me up inside!! I HATE seeing her sad like this, and yet I just don't know how to make her feel better.. That is the worst feeling of all.. To not be able to help the person you love most.

I'd like to know how you deal with that kind of stuff if it happens with you to Smelena.
Anyway thanks again for all your replies.

InBrissy

Have you thought she might be depressed? Smelena has to deal withthat too (inherited through me) I still think a letter to her might help, but I stand aside for my wiser daughter.