Lonely, isolated in a sea of NT's

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I have no family history of Aspergers, and didn't manage to hit it off with the only two aspergers girls I have met in my life (mainly just cause we were very different types of people).

It's so nice, and makes me feel so jealous, to see so many families here embrace their aspergers - it was always a disorder in my family, not often mentioned, and although my parents tried to be positive about it, it was nearly always about overcoming it. In all the years since I was diagnosed we never really talked about it, except when i had an extreme problem at school or something along those lines, and it was a shameful thing. I was always so ashamed of it, hated myself for who I was, and wished with all my heart I was an NT.

It's only in the last 2 months or so, that I've started doing intensive research for the first time, and spending time of WP, that I've started to realize what I've missed, have some of my questions answered, and realized that maybe it's not such a bad thing after all. Maybe I can enjoy and celebrate my unique characteristics and creativity and interests. Maybe I should be proud of who I am.

My aspie characteristics were always flaws in my mum's mind, to be ironed out as much as possible, and I always hated myself for them, but now I'm wondering if maybe I could learn to like them and appreciate them for what they are, but I am so isolated and these new ideas are very fragile and I have nobody to talk to about it.

I am isolated in a sea of uninterested NT's. I feel like I've been obsessing over my aspergers lately and I feel like I've regressed in my "NTness" and feel annoyed at myself, then wonder why I feel like I have to be NT to be a decent/good person (which i am always obsessed with, and getting sick of being obsessed over).

I think a lot of this stems from loneliness but I'm ashamed of it, and I feel stupid for spending so much time on WP lately because I know I'm high functioning aspergers (as my mum constantly reminds me) and there's nothing much wrong with me, i'm perfectly 'fine' because i'm able to cope in the NT world for the most part, and I'm "completely normal" according to one of my closest friends, who is very forceful about this, and the others don't really seem to want to discuss it.

I feel lost and confused and everyone seems to imply that I either just want to feel "special" or "self-important", or its all in my head, every time I want to talk about my aspergers. It makes me feel so ashamed of myself.

[quote="sunshower"]

I am isolated in a sea of uninterested NT's. I feel like I've been obsessing over my aspergers lately and I feel like I've regressed in my "NTness" and feel annoyed at myself, then wonder why I feel like I have to be NT to be a decent/good person (which i am always obsessed with, and getting sick of being obsessed over).

quote]

Yes I can relate to that. Sometimes I will also see my ineptness as being bad or unacceptable, but really it isn't so. There are a lot of NT's who to me show less empathy to others (and people with ASD's are meant to have empathy problems). In the last few months Ive also felt like Ive regressed but since I have more of an understanding of myself it doesnt bother me so much. I still place pressure on myself to live up to expectations which I feel others will approve of, but I think that pressure is slowly subsiding. Hang in there.

Thanks

I'm hoping that I'm coming closer to figuring out who I am as a person and being comfortable with who I am.

You always have us to talk to.

0h yes, I can definitely relate...except I'm n0t diagnosed yet.

Hi Sunshower! Hello All!

I sure hope you don't resent my replying to you since I am NT, but I couldn't resist asking you some questions.

1. Would you be ashamed of me, an NT, if I tried to fit into your world, but failed?

2. Do you think I should feel ashamed of myself because I failed to fit into your world?

3. Do you think I'm a bad person because I am unsuccessful as an autistic, even though I have tried so hard to think just like one?

4. Would you consider it a "regression" if I decided I was more comfortable in my NT world rather than in yours?

5. Should I feel inferior compared to you just because I can't be like you?


Sunshower, I wish for you self love. I wouldn't change who you are for the world, but I would change the world for you. It's the world that's inferior, not you.

"I feel lost and confused and everyone seems to imply that I either just want to feel "special" or "self-important", or its all in my head, every time I want to talk about my aspergers. It makes me feel so ashamed of myself."

I completely understand.


My father is an aspie, my mom is ADHD. And in their mind "I'm too much asperger for asperger" and there's too much pressure in academic issues. We, aspies, are always called "egoloter and selfish" because of our speeches, simply because we either can't find much confidence to tell what's really going on in words or because we have a different way to speak or express ourselves, a peculiar way. Being on this site, I feel I am understood, because even being from a different culture, nation and speaking a different tongue, I have so much in common with many people, and the key is the fact we are never wanted, accepted or understood. My family has always denied I was autistic, my brother and sister were ashamed of me and I didn't understand why, I wanted to be a NT, I wanted to talk like a NT, to dress up like them, but I have realized: they make sense. So I gave up, I accept my condition, I am autistic, I speak my mind and not what they want to hear. They don't scare me ANYMORE. I look in the eyes, but I always bow or look up like chasing an invible butterfly. I have non verbal versus verbal conflicts, so I either hear or see the person. They tease me, they mock me, they lie to me. But I am who I am and am glad I am not like them. I love people you know, but I don't undertand them and their values.

Writing to your parents would be a good thing istead of talking. In the NT world silence is gold, because they love lies, so in order not to tell them the truth I have been told to keep my mouth shut. And when we tell what's really going on with ourselves "it's always on our minds".

My father is the kind of asperger who is monossylabic, he can pass weeks without saying hello to me, when he talks he wants to criticize something or giving a command and if I say "I disagree", I get yelled. My mom is ADHD and I only understand her when she's not talking, I see her moving and talking and talking, I don't get anything, but I love her, I remind her words and reflect a lot o them. My father says "Here are the keys" and I say "here are the keys" he repeats "here are the keys, did you hear?" I say "the keys are here, definetly here, I heard", then he points and says "The keys are here look", I look and say: "Yes, I see" and he says: "Ok, when I come back I want the keys". And I say: "Why don't you take them with you If you want them?".

When I found out about Aspergers's I regressed, ALOT. I found myself even more autistic than I had previously been. I had tried SO hard to fit into an NT world, that I was acting like it all the time.

Once I let go of the need to be NT, my Aspie traits came out very strongly. However, after a while, once I had learned to be comfortable in who I am, they leveled off. I was even better at fitting in, because I wasn't trying so hard. I accepted my limitations, and didn't try and force myself to be the perfect NT.

I'm sure that with time, you too, will become more comfortable with who you are, and will adjust accordingly. I am an Aspie, and I"m proud of it. I am different, and I'm glad that I am. I have a different way of seeing the world, and that's okay.

Be strong!

Wow.. I wanted to reply to everyone personally, but I fear I'll clog up the topic..


Thanks so much everybody for posting, it really means a lot to me that I can get this stuff off my chest and not get only silence, or disapproval, or NT language looks/vocal tones I can't decipher but suspect are negative in return.

To snugglebee - Wow. I think you're right, that's very insightful. It's hard for me to think like that after a lifetime of being brainwashed into believing that being NT is the epitome of being a good person, and being smart and likeable, and being aspie is being flawed and mentally deficient. Are you someone who works with autistic people, or a parent or sibling of an autistic child, perchance? I find what you said really inspiring, and nobody in my life has ever talked about aspergers in that way. This site was the first time I've heard your perspective, and it's really hard for me to grasp after spending so many years doing everything in my power to somehow become NT.

To Taly - your dad sounds exactly like my mum. She always speaks to me like that. With that frusturated irritable somewhat condescending tone. Except she's completely normal, (according to her), and she revels in that fact. The fact that she's 'with it' and 'down to earth' and not 'vague' and 'lazy'. Personally I suspect she has OCPD or something along those lines. She's too extremist and controlling and negative to be normal.

To TimTex - You're right. And it's awesome.

Quote from DevonB:

"I accepted my limitations, and didn't try and force myself to be the perfect NT."

Quote from Sunshower:

"To snugglebee - Wow. I think you're right, that's very insightful. It's hard for me to think like that after a lifetime of being brainwashed into believing that being NT is the epitome of being a good person, and being smart and likeable, and being aspie is being flawed and mentally deficient. Are you someone who works with autistic people, or a parent or sibling of an autistic child, perchance? I find what you said really inspiring, and nobody in my life has ever talked about aspergers in that way. This site was the first time I've heard your perspective, and it's really hard for me to grasp after spending so many years doing everything in my power to somehow become NT."

Hi Friends! As I mentioned earlier, I am an NT. I am married to an undiagnosed Aspie, and I also have a 13 year old son who is a diagnosed Aspie. I'd like to tell you all something that I tell them every chance I get: PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BE THE PERFECT NT ANY LONGER! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT NT! The plain truth is that not one of us is perfect, autistic or NT! No matter how our brains are wired, we are all simply human, and humans are not perfect. We are all just trying to do our best in this life, and we all have our own problems to overcome or accept. You might find this hard to believe, but I wish I was autistic sometimes so that I could relate to my husband and son better! Sometimes they hurt my feelings, and sometimes I hurt theirs, simply because we misunderstand one another at times. But we always forgive eachother because we love eachother. We ACCEPT one another for who we are, and celebrate our differences as well as our likenesses. We NT's and autistic folks have so much in common! We all make mistakes, misread faces, say the wrong things, feel insecure and inferior, and feel isolated at times. And we all crave acceptance. Now, I must say that I know very well that autistics do have a harder time in life than NT's do. I hear that from my husband and my son all of the time, and that's why they wish they were NT sometimes. They tell me that there are more NT's in this world than there are autistic folks, and for that reason alone, their life is harder. NT's rule the world in their eyes, because of sheer numbers! I tell them that even though there are more of us, that doesn't mean we are the perfect ones. I don't want my husband and son to see me as perfect! That's something I can never live up to! I only want them to admire the heart I have, not the brain I have! And I love them for their hearts too! Not their brains.

Last night, I was driving with my Aspie son. I was telling him about this great website I found called "Wrong Planet". I told him how I hoped interacting with autistic people would better my skills of interacting with him and his father. He laughed at that! He said, "Mom, I love you just the way you are! Stop trying to be like me!" I told him that I loved him just the way he was to, and that I wouldn't change one thing about him. He looked at me and smiled and said, "Yes, but you still cried when you found out I was autistic." I said, "Yes, that is true. But not because I was disappointed in you. I cried because I knew this world was going to be extra hard on you. I cried because I couldn't change the world for you. I would if I could."

To Snugglebee:

I think you're a really amazing person. And it's funny you say that, because when I was diagnosed at age 12 my NT mum cried (apparently) and she told me she cried for the same reasons. The truth is that I think I might often misunderstand her, and I probably hurt her feelings as much as she hurts mine. Also, at the risk of quoting you, as you mentioned sometimes you wish you were aspie, I know this site often makes it seem as though aspergers people have special qualities that NT's don't (which is certainly something new to me). It's true. But NT's have special qualities that aspies don't. You guys are able to see the world in four dimensions whereas we can only see it in three. You guys can know what people are thinking and feeling just by looking at them, and listening to the way they say stuff (and that's an amazing gift to have). I read a book about body language over the holidays and so much of what it said amazed me, and after that I started looking for signs i'd seen mentioned in the book, and i was amazed how much even that tiny bit of understanding of some body language changed my perspective on the world.
I think everyone (not just aspies) has it hard in different ways. Aspies have it hard because the world is constructed to suit an NT's thought processes, and while we may be more skilled in other areas, we lack some of these basic processes which makes it hard to adjust and live in the world.

I think it's one of the hardest things in the world to be the mother of an aspie kid. When i'd come home from school crying every day cause I was bullied, I would block out all the bad things and retreat to my own inner world, and just forget everything by the next day. My mum would lie awake at night worrying about me. It's harder on her because all the qualities she admires and connects with not being lazy (she thinks being lazy is the worst thing a person can be), such as efficiency, multitasking, initiative to anticipate tasks, are things that are hard for someone with aspergers to do. I think she used to feel she'd failed as a mother because she couldn't teach me to do these things she considered so vital to being a good person.

To Sunshower:

Thanks for thinking I am an amazing person. I think the same thing about you!

You wrote: "But NT's have special qualities that aspies don't. You guys are able to see the world in four dimensions whereas we can only see it in three. You guys can know what people are thinking and feeling just by looking at them, and listening to the way they say stuff (and that's an amazing gift to have)."

My answer: You are right. It is an amazing gift, and one that NT's take for granted. Myself included. But this gift doesn't always work when an NT is trying to read an Aspie/Autistic person. That's why I sometimes wish I could think and feel like an Aspie. I am not ashamed of being NT, just like I don't believe you should be ashamed of being Aspie. We should all be proud of who we are. But wouldn't it be great if we could switch places, just temporarily, when we needed to understand each other and just couldn't?

You wrote: "I read a book about body language over the holidays and so much of what it said amazed me, and after that I started looking for signs i'd seen mentioned in the book, and i was amazed how much even that tiny bit of understanding of some body language changed my perspective on the world."

My answer: I admire you for furthering your ability to interact in the NT world by reading about common NT body language! Do autistic/aspie folks have a common body language too? Do you find other autistics easier to "read" than NT's? I never thought about that possibility: the possibility that you might be able to "read" other autistic people more easily than NT's. Is this true? If it is, you could write a book about the body language of Autistics! I'd bet you'd make a fortune on it! There are many NT's like me who would love to read it. I know I'd buy it!! !

You wrote: "I think everyone (not just aspies) has it hard in different ways. Aspies have it hard because the world is constructed to suit an NT's thought processes, and while we may be more skilled in other areas, we lack some of these basic processes which makes it hard to adjust and live in the world."

My answer: I agree with you 100%! !! That's why I wish I could change the world for you and my own family. We NT's outnumber you, and so the world is constructed to suit us. Majority rules, whether it's fair or not, and it's not fair.


You wrote: "The truth is that I think I might often misunderstand her, and I probably hurt her feelings as much as she hurts mine."

My answer: I think that's very true, and you are very insightful to see that! People who love eachother are usually the ones who unintentionally hurt eachother the most. It's just a sad fact. I personally believe your mother loves you more than life itself. I also believe that every single mother in the world, whether they are raising NT children or autistic children, feel like they have failed their children in some way. Because we moms are not perfect either and we make lots of mistakes! My own mom has made mistakes with me, but I don't dwell on them any longer. I know that she loves me, and that's enough for me. I have forgiven her for her mistakes, just like I pray that my own children forgive me for mine someday. I have three children by the way. My Aspie son is my oldest. I have another son with dyslexia and PDD, and a daughter with ADHD. I am the only NT in my household! Now do you see why I wish I wasn't NT sometimes? In my own world, I am the one who is outnumbered!

I could write to you forever, Sunshower! I really enjoy YOU! But I have to go for now. I work at night, and so now I have to get some sleep. If you write to me again, I will answer you tomorrow.

Bye for now!

When I learned of AS it was horrible and a relief at the same time. Very hard to describe.

Knowing the WHY allowed me to look at myself and catch my 'moments'. This has helped me lots at trying to improve my social responses.

You could say that before I was a man that was on fire and didn't notice.. when someone pointed it out the result was that I KNEW...but I was still burning up. But lately i've been learning to flap my hands around to put the flames out.

Still looking for a river to jump into


Still lonely and isolated but I think i'm doing a bit better in socializing. Now that I know why I never cared at all about having a social network or engaging in pointless small chat ...and knowing how important both can be... i've been working on it. Still failing miserably but I see it as following the little stream until it joins the river or an ocean. It has to eventually.

Wow snugglebee! I had tears in my eyes reading your posts!

Welcome to Wrong Planet .

I hope you stick around and participate as much as you are able - you are sorely needed here!

Wow, Kelsie! What a wonderful welcome! Thank you very much. I think I will be staying on Wrong Planet for a long time. I really like the people here. I am already learning so much, but more than that, I find I am enjoying myself!

Dantac: Keep working on the socializing! You are right about the stream flowing into the river, which then flows into the ocean. I really like these words you used to describe the process of learning and self growth! Very true and very insightful. My son felt much like you did when you learned you had AS. He was only 9 years old the day I told him. (He was diagnosed with AS at age four, but I hadn't told him yet. I felt he was too young to understand it at that time) I will never forget that day I told him! We happened to be sitting in church, and I heard him sniffle. I looked over and saw him silently crying. I leaned over and asked him if he was sick, or if something was wrong. He began crying in earnest, so I grabbed him by the hand and left the rest of my family sitting there in church. David (my son) and I went to a private room and sat down to talk. Well, I sat down but he started pacing back and forth. The first thing he said was, "I feel like an alien! What's wrong with me, Mom?" I was so shocked to hear him use the word "alien" because I had just finished reading the book "Freaks, Geeks, and Asperger's Syndrome" by Luke Jackson. I remember Luke Jackson using that term in the book, so it was ironic to hear my son use it too. Anyway, I told David that he had AS, and that there wasn't anything wrong with him, only different. I remember telling him that he was uncommon in a common world. David cheered up immediately! He was so relieved to find out what he had, and he said "I just knew there was something different about me!" When we got home, I gave him Luke Jackson's book to read. I told him Luke was a boy with AS too, so maybe Luke might say things you can relate to. David read his book that night..........the entire book.........and he kept reading it over and over for many nights to come. He kept the book under his pillow. Luke became his friend in a way I never could, and although I never met Luke Jackson, I will always love him for the gift he gave to my son by writing that book and telling his story. Anyway, as the days passed, David went through times of relief and joy as well as times of anger and worry. Today, David is 13 years old and is happy most days. However, now and then, I still find myself sitting on the sofa, watching him pace back and forth as he vents to me about the troubles he's having with other kids at school. I try to offer him good advice and try to be a good listener for him, but I know as a NT person, I can't ever really know how he feels. That bothers me! As his mom, I want to be able to heal every hurt, but I just can't. So I am there for him. That I can do, and that I will always do. Just be there for him. Loving him as he is, and watching him grow into the most amazing person I have ever met.

You're ALL so amazing to me! You're strength of character, your grace in the face of ridicule, your never ending quest to improve yourselves.........it's all so awe inspiring to me! Be proud of who you were in the past, who you are right now, and who you will become in the futre. Stream to river to ocean. Just like you said, Dantac!

I agree with Kelsi, your insights are inspiring and touching, and I am very glad you're on this forum. About your son in the church, reading that almost moved me to tears. I'm so glad being diagnosed made him feel more sure of himself. I had self doubts like that more when i was in my teens (everything was mostly a haze when i was younger, i was so disconnected from everything).

I can't really speak for other autistic people, but personally I can't read much body language either way - of autistics or NT's. I think that's why autistic people are known to be so "honest" and "open", because we say what we mean as otherwise we can't understand each other. It would be cool if we had our own special body language, but I don't think this is the case. I think we understand and can often communicate more comfortably with each other because we know that the other person is honest and is saying exactly what they mean - there's no hidden meanings we're supposed to decipher.

I guess I've been finding that I feel a lot safer and more comfortable when talking to other autistic people because there's no hidden stuff going on I can't understand. It can be really frightening and shocking when someone suddenly turns on you/starts hating you/does something mean when they were saying nice things to you just previously (clearly their body language/vocal undertones were saying otherwise, but because you couldn't pick up on them at all, you had no idea what was coming).

An example of this would be with what happened between me and two best friends at different stages of my life. My first, Kate, who I thought was my best (and only) friend in grade six, suddenly turned to me on the stairs one day and told me out of the blue she hated me and to stop following her. It was completely unexpected to me (although her body language would probably have been showing it) and a total shock. In grade 9 my best friend of two years, Susannah (who admittedly was going through family issues), suddenly (seemingly) out of the blue got furious at me and turned on me, and pretty much didn't speak to me again until the end of grade 10, when she apologized to me. I dont say this to put either of them down, I'm sure their reasons were valid, just to give an example as it's hard to describe how frightening and horrible it's like when something like that happens so suddenly, and with someone you thought you were so close to.

I think this sort of thing can make autistic people uneasy and insecure at times when talking to NT's, and certainly a conversation is a high pressure situation as you're always on edge (again, speaking from my own experiences, and other autistics may see things differently). That's the best way I can explain it.

Also, I think sometimes Austistics might make NT's uncomfortable as maybe their body language can seem random and unpredictable to someone used to reading into that stuff (am I close to hitting the mark, or completely off here? )

Thanks so much for discussing these things with me snugglebee, it's fantastic to get the opinion of an NT on these things.