Heather Kuzmich does NOT have Asperger's (misdiangosed)

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Heather Kuzmich was wrongly diagnosed Asperger
agree with psychologist 15%  15%  [ 23 ]
disagree with psychologist 85%  85%  [ 127 ]
Total votes : 150

PunkyKat
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22 Aug 2010, 8:25 pm

I recently had a phycatrist say my diagnosis of AS needs to be changed becusase I am too aware and high functioning and articulate. BS, when I was a child, I had phycatrists tell my parents I was basicaly ret*d and I was going to live in a group home when I grew up becuase I would be unable to care for myself. People change as they age. Has he read records of Heather from when she was a child? If stupidy was a crime, but psychatrists would be quilty as charged and thrown in jail forever.


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fernando
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29 Aug 2010, 12:39 am

She has it. These "professionals" want to take the word autism and apply it to a new set of people. Who are we to stop them.


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29 Aug 2010, 3:03 pm

Heck when I was a baby, my parents were told I was autistic and I'd be in an institution by the time I am ten and I would never learn to take care of myself and be on my own.

I've come a long ways.



BrendaEM
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01 Sep 2010, 8:26 pm

Do you understand how this thread could degrade to:
Does tangerine12 have Aspergers Syndrome?

Who here has enough information to make an informed decision?
Who here spent time with her?

How would she feel, if she were even mildly ASD, and risking her career to speak out for aspies, and she find this thread?



yeahyeah
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04 Sep 2010, 6:12 am

She looks decent in my opinion, she is overrated :?



Azolet
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11 Sep 2010, 10:15 pm

Honestly, this is stupid. I'm going to reiterate what a billion people have said already, that that psychologist was NOT qualified to make a "diagnosis" based on a few video clips. Heather was diagnosed at age 15, 7 years before she was on the show - that is a LONG time to make progress. And she is obviously very good at hiding it (yes, some of us ARE good at hiding it).

It is interesting - my mom was watching ANTM, and she was watching Heather closely, and she said that she noticed that, when other people were giving another girl a hug or something, Heather would always do it too, but she was a half a beat behind everyone else. Like she was watching what the other girls did, and then copying it. My mom said that it was only something you would have seen if you had been watching carefully.

Aspies are known for being good mimics, especially when they want to fit into a social situation. (I myself have done this a lot.) And, I don't know about you, tangerine12, but some of us actually WANT and TRY to improve in those areas, and, surprisingly enough :roll:, a lot of us have actually had some successes with it.



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11 Oct 2010, 9:09 pm

My preference stresses the accomplishment of an exceptional person contradistinct to the apparently reductionistic point of view expressed by the professional. One would hope that misdiagnoses wouldn't occur, but people aren't perfect. However, people are vibrant and resourceful. Without a thorough examination of the facts it is hard to presume that a "non-expert" can voice more than a hopeful opinion about an exceptional person demonstrating their resilience than rely on a list of observable behaviors which are interpreted as "proof" of a "misdiagnosis". Where doctors practice medicine there is room for error.



Midna
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22 Oct 2010, 6:57 pm

Hard to say, I;m gonna say I agree that she DOES has Asperger's. Asperger's is a little different for everyone, some people suffer more then others.

I am very high functioning then the everage Aspie. I am a lot more social then I used to be, most of it I guess is becuase I forced myself to be now that I have a car and work for my Dad doing errands for his company. We Aspies can overcome a lot of stuff with practise, the same with Heather. She is probably more social becuase she practiced a lot and gotten used to it. I still am shy at home, mostly like when people come over, but when I'm outside and need to ask people for information, it's really not that hard for me now.

I have questioned myself if I had Asperger's or something similar becuase I don't really compare to compare to most people. I have don;t have some traits but also have toher traits that most aspies don't have. Then I thought about. I know that not all aspie are a like. Some of us struggle more in different areas, but I think we all struggle with social like making friends and stuff.



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28 Oct 2010, 9:35 am

At 40 I am very good at pretending to be normal or at least passing as normal. When I was in grade school I was a complete weird little freak who people would stop and stare at. By the time I made it to high school thru trial and error I picked up a few tricks to look more normal like walking with good posture, not stimming infront of people, and how to fake eye contact but I was still considered odd by my peers. I am pretty sure she has developed coping skills to look more normal around people she does not know. I am sure if you put a camera on me that I was aware of you would see very few of my Aspergers traits due to my decades of practice at being normal looking. :wink:


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Norah
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18 Nov 2010, 2:23 pm

This is the first I've seen this thread. The point I'd like to make is that she was diagnosed nearly 10 years ago. Asperger's may be a more common diagnosis now, but it was very uncommon then, especially for girls. At that time many psychologists and pyschiatrists and other therapists knew very little about it and would probably be more likely to misdiagnose an Aspie as having OCD, ADHD, social anxiety or a host of other things rather than AS. Just by knowing when she was diagnosed I'd be more likely to believe her diagnosis.

She probably had quite severe symptoms and difficulties at the time, and she's probably been able to learn behaviors since then that can make her appear normal much of the time, in public anyway.



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20 Nov 2010, 2:50 am

I haven't watched ANTM, but this video shows it all:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWArtIXY5WA[/youtube]
She has it. She does have a flat affect compared to the other girls. I watched her interviews as well as a couple of her clips from ANTM on Youtube. She definitely looks awkward in the video above. She has "the gait", and it's pretty darn visible.
I don't get how this person could say that she looks normal, because just from the videos I can see that she isn't "fully there".


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20 Nov 2010, 2:55 pm

MathGirl wrote:
I haven't watched ANTM, but this video shows it all:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWArtIXY5WA[/youtube]
She has it. She does have a flat affect compared to the other girls. I watched her interviews as well as a couple of her clips from ANTM on Youtube. She definitely looks awkward in the video above. She has "the gait", and it's pretty darn visible.
I don't get how this person could say that she looks normal, because just from the videos I can see that she isn't "fully there".


You know, it's funny how sometimes someone's differences really pop out at you when you see them around NT's. I see my son's AS so much more clearly when he's around a group of kids his own age. I can see that in Heather K. in this video. I also saw myself. I would not be with the other women and if I happened to be sitting with them, I still would not be "with" them.



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20 Nov 2010, 3:09 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
Do you think Heather Kuzmich have Asperger's? Do you think she might be misdiagnosed?

Is she too social and high functioning to disqualify for AS?

An clinical psych thought so. This person wrote that not only does Heather Kuzmich not have diagnosis, but that s/he uses clips to show how Heather is an example of someone who is wrongly diagnosed as AS. This individual goes so far as to show in professional presentations to other health care workers how Heather does not have AS based on her superiorer understanding of nonverbals and use of social language and is even putting together a DVD to show clinicians how NOT to diagnosis someone with Asperger's using Heather as an example of wrong diagnosis.
And DSM-V in all its wisdom wants to eliminate Asperger's, probably funded by big pharma.


I'm reading televisionwithoutpity and one "expert wrote"
http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com ... 556&st=345


Quote:
nanasez
The thing that frustrates me is that Heather isn't Asperger's at all. As a psychologist, my specialty is assessment and differential diagnosis. I trained under someone who specializes in Asperger's. I've worked with many of his Asperger's patients. I'm very adept at identifying Asperger's Syndrome. In fact, I was testing a teen for clearance to get his pilot's license, and during the session some very subtle things had me suspecting Asperger's. I sent for his records, which included neuropsychological testing that he'd had as a young child, and that report documented perfectly a textbook case of Asperger's. His current psychiatrist, however, had him misdiagnosed as OCD.

Anyway, Heather is in no way Asperger's. Asperger's Syndrome is the "fad" diagnosis of the day, taking its place beside ADHD and Bipolar Disorder. People with little to no training in psychological diagnosis and assessment (i.e. teachers, general practitioners, even many psychiatrists) are quick to be swayed by the pop-psychology watered down interpretation of Asperger's that is perpetuated by "Aspie" web sites and people who like to claim the diagnosis because they think "high functioning" (as in high functioning autism) means superior intelligence and cognitively gifted. Heather's case (which isn't Heather's fault at all - she's not the one who misdiagnosed her) just perpetuates the misunderstanding of another psychological condition.

Because she doesn't have Asperger's. I know all about the continuum. I work with people all along the continuum. Even on the "mild" end of the continuum for Aperger's (which may or may not be considered a form of autism, depending on the school of thought one accepts), the signs are pretty unmistakable. The problem is that the diagnosis has gotten so watered down that "introversion" is pretty much getting diagnosed as Asperger's (as that bogus "test" demonstrates).

There are so many things that Heather does that no one with Aperger's, even on the mild end, would be able to do. There's a lack of the kinds of socially inappropriate behaviors that Asperger's people demonstrate. There's the ease with which she understands and uses nonverbals - definitely not Asperger's. Just something as simple as making eye contact remains something that an Apserger's person has to do consciously. It's a social rule that they're taught to use, and for them it's like someone learning to drive a car - only the various behaviors never become automatic. There'd be no understanding and use of something like an eyeroll. Or the way she automatically reacted on a recent show when someone was insulted and she gasped and covered her mouth with her hand. There's the focus on eyes in her art. An Asperger's person wouldn't be noticing and understanding emotional expression in eyes, and would never talk about "dead eyes." People with Asperger's are very concrete. Ask what "two heads are better than one" means and you'll be told that someone with two brains could think twice as much. "Dead eyes" to someone with Asperger's would mean someone went blind because their eyes died. Then the whole idea of living in a new situation, with a ton of strangers, outside of one's routine (which gets somewhat ritualistic with an Asperger's person) would be a huge trigger for anxiety and complete panic-like meltdowns for someone with Asperger's.

I was presenting at a psych hospital last week and merely mentioned Heather from ANTM, and it immediately triggered a discussion among clinicians experienced with Asperger's about how grossly misdiagnosed she is.

If took every kid in our Asperger's group, or every Asperger's indvidual in our practice, and filmed them all for 24/7 for a week, there'd not be any scenes (outside of sleeping) where viewers would see "normal."

But more than that, they can't "edit in" abilities that a person with Asperger's absolutely would not demonstrate. It's not just the absence of signs of Asperger's, it's also the presence of abilities that are at odds with an Asperger's diagnosis. Heather has natural affect. Heather understands non-verbals and effortlessly uses them. Heather has normal voice tone and modulation. Heather has normal vocal inflection. Heather understands emotion, can read it in others, and responds to it appropriately. Heather demonstrates ease of empathy.

Asperger's is a "hot" fad diagnosis. In the past few years, we see more and more people being given the diagnosis mistakenly. The number of referrals I get for differential diagnosis from some clinician who doesn't understand Asperger's has increased by at least 400%. One of my most recent cases was a girl who went to a psychiatrist who is a horrible diagnostician. On the basis of a few 15 minute interactions with her, he told her therapist that she was Asperger's. Why? Because she's always reading a book, and she doesn't look up from her books to make eye contact when he talks to her. That's it. The mother jumped on the diagnosis like a frog on a fly, and cannot be disabused of the notion that her daughter is Asperger's. So now she's got this inaccurate notion of Asperger's, and is out there dessiminating her misunderstanding of the disorder, thanks to a doctor who makes these snap diagnoses all the time without bothering to really study any research or professional literature. We're getting this all the time now, kids referred by general practitioners, educators, parents who read some web site or a pop psychology book, psychiatrists who haven't read more than some drug company pamphlet given out at a free lunch, etc. This is the way ADHD got so overdiagnosed, then bipolar disorder. Now, it's Asperger's.

All facets of human behavior and fucntioning occur on a continuum. Some people are more one way than others. Difference isn't a disorder. Heather is functioning normally. She's on the show, making friends, living with the other girls, winning competitions, etc. Without impairment, there is no disorder. We're actually putting together a DVD of Heather's scenes in our clinic so that we can use it to demonstrate a case of Asperger's misdiagnosis and do some diagnostic education.



I can do everything Heather can do that Nan.. says no person with AS can do, so should I not be diagnosed as AS?
There's a psych who says Einstein does not have AS since AS folks do not have a sense of humor. Maybe I should sue my psych for giving me the wrong diagnosis then discriminating against me for this wrong diagnosis.

Obviously I think Asperger should be kept at least as a subtype or severity designation in DSM-V


If she just seems like she has Asperger's, she could have it. Not all aspies have a severe time with social functioning, nonverbals, and social language; rather, some may either be more adept, or she could have learned those skills. My social functioning is pretty good, and that was through my own effort and by imitating my sister (who, although shy, has way better social skills than I do). Although mine is cleverly disguised, some of my teachers can still see my Asperger's through my complaints about how I don't really fit in with them.



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29 Nov 2010, 11:50 pm

I don't think this so-called doctor has seen her interviews. Knowing how to dress well or make sense in a conversation is far from not having it, and, her polish frays on about the same things and in the same ways as it does for most people on the milder end of the spectrum.

I think I saw an interview a while further back even when I could see the overload plain as day, ie. her facial expressions were working but it seemed like her consciousness was trying to push its way out from under a 200 lb iron plate - the same way it feels for me half the time in situations like that.



ci
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30 Nov 2010, 12:57 am

I don't know whom has that or not because I don't really have the attention for it. Where I am they have day programs and to be part of those you have to have at least HFA. So people on the internet are text.

The T.V show was about models but I am told males think of females as sex objects in feminineness which I had to study recently because there was a social accident with romantic candles I make. I do not see a way around this especially if the intent is to be an object of desire. I think she is very very cute but not to make other ladies envious of this natural related success because these primal pathologies (even normal) are innate and the whole evolutionary concept still works despite a seemingly ingrained and marketed theme of superior looks of one another.

If I might be candid why bother with the idea of not having autism in context? Does she not fit in here either? She is skinny but this is a big virtual place. The autism planet website here lots of people know about and I am sure she likely knows about it.

Very very cute.. yes...

Maybe that's sexual harassment. I've been studying that to lately. Perhaps I'm being rude but that is the standard primal male brain and women do not view men as objects of desire either. Yeah right. The human psyche is so hardwired and influenced based on the pathologies that every governing intention and behavior might be said as member of it. So if she is cute, successful and has A.S others might just not relate because they are not those other things themselves. Saying this might get people angry and if it's rude okiedokie.



davidjess
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23 Dec 2010, 11:21 pm

"A clinical psych thought so. This person wrote that not only does Heather Kuzmich not have diagnosis, but that s/he uses clips to show how Heather is an example of someone who is wrongly diagnosed as AS."

I do not think that a professional psychologist can rule out Asperger's from watching a video. It takes a team of specialists, interviews with family members, specific tests. Modeling, I would say, seems like JUST the kind of thing an Aspie would learn how to do, all the way down to the eye rolls. A lot of people with ASD are attracted to performing arts. That seems to be how we learn and understand the world of emotional expressions.

One thing we need to improve on in our discussions, though, is understanding the complexity of Asperger's (AS), as a diagnosis, as a complex set of spectrums of behavioral traits, and as phenotypes and genotypes. We have about 10 times more people with Asperger's than with Autism, and we have about 10 times more people with Broader Autistic Phenotype (BAP) than with Aspergers. Think about those numbers. 10 times something (a degree of magnitude) makes a big difference when you are identifying characteristics for group membership. When we identify ourselves or people in videos as "having Apserger's", we are really noticing BAPs. People with BAPs may not have significant trouble with getting and keeping a job, starting and maintaining friendships and marriages, or planning; however, they may still benefit from interventions and communities designed for AS and ASD, if they have something in their personality that they want to change. It is spectral, after all!

Reference:
* Rate of Autism [ASD with significant language delay], is about 4/10,000.
* Rate of Asperger's Syndrome [ASD without significant language delay] is about 4/1000.
* Rate of BAP (not considered ASD) is about 4/100.
* ASD is Autistic Spectrum Disorder, which includes Autism and Asperger's Syndrome, announced to be in the next DSM by APA).
* BAP is Broader Autism Phenotype (genetic expression). It is characterized by preference to solitary pursuits, careers like scientist, engineer, accountant, social awkwardness, difficulty with words that have multiple definitions, literal thinking, oddness, idiosyncraticity, difficulty with fine or gross motor control (not good at writing or sports)-pretty much all the characteristics of AS, perhaps in milder form. The main thing that differentiates it from AS is a lack of significant problems in society, in getting and keeping a job, advancing in a career, marrying and maintaining a relationship.
* Autism, AS, and BAP are far more common in families of somebody with autism than in the population.
* BAP is almost always found in families of a person with AS, particularly in both parents.

Source: Klin, A, Volkmar, F, & Sparrow, S., eds. (2000). Asperger's Syndrome. Ch 5. Guilliford. NY. Accessed 2010-12-19 from < NOT ALLOWED TO POST YET >



Last edited by davidjess on 23 Dec 2010, 11:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.