Comfort derived from defiance is delusional.

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 6:14 am

That thought just crossed my mind and I decided to post it.

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Michhsta
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16 Jul 2010, 6:53 am

Can you explain your reasoning? Or extend that thought? I find it interesting and want to know more....

Mics

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 7:02 am

Imagine someone on the Titanic saying something like this:

"No, I am *not* getting off this ship until I know what happened!"

Defiance sometimes says, "I know a better way", or more simply, "No, I know better", then takes comfort in its own confidence ... usually followed by a continuance of pain or even death.

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Aimless
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16 Jul 2010, 7:10 am

Is that another way of describing denial?

leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 7:15 am

Aimless wrote:

Is that another way of describing denial?

Not necessarily. One cannot deny something unless he or she actually knows the truth of a matter. In a case like that, to "deny" is to actually lie.

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richardbenson
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16 Jul 2010, 12:18 pm

this reminds me that someone took my authority, it was given back to me and now the only way i'll be defeted is if i return it back to mah adversary!!

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm

I think sometimes this defiance is completely reasonable. In cases where someone's life is in danger, I would expect someone to at least say so. "The boat is sinking!" takes less time than trying to reason with a defiant person, for example.

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Xelebes
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16 Jul 2010, 4:17 pm

It's another way of saying conceit.

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 4:44 pm

richardbenson wrote:

this reminds me that someone took my authority, it was given back to me and now ...

It is not possible for anyone to take away one's personal authority -- one's personal authority can only be given away. Someone else might rob me of my life, my liberty or my property, but such action would not be a crime if I did not yet retain my personal authority.

I once saw a T-shirt print that really caught my eye. It was a view of an eagle swooping in, talons outstretched, to grab a mouse as its next meal ... and the mouse was looking directly at the eagle while giving it the single-finger salute. The caption over the picture read, "The Last Great Act Of Defiance".

That mouse held tightly to his/her/its personal authority to the very end, but without suffering the delusion of all thereby being well.

richardbenson wrote:

... the only way i'll be defeted is if i return [my authority] back to mah adversary!!

Not true, and that is a good example of the delusion I am mentioning.

I was dying of chronic alcoholism, and I willingly gave my personal authority away to an entity many people mis-perceive as an adversary ... but either way, that little mouse and I knew the same fact:

Hanging on to my personal authority was a decision I could make, but doing so was not going to make my life any better.

Much to my surprise, however, my personal authority -- my will and my life -- were later offered back to me to again hold for myself if I wanted them for myself ... but no, I had since won that battle within myself and knew (and still know) it best to leave things just as they are.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Jul 2010, 4:51 pm

leejosepho wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's a crime to murder a newborn, and they don't yet retain personal authority.

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 4:57 pm

Xelebes wrote:

It's another way of saying conceit.

Yes, you understand.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Jul 2010, 5:00 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Xelebes wrote:

It's another way of saying conceit.

Yes, you understand.

I don't. How is it conceited to want to know why you're being evacuated from a ship? It's not like anyone would stay once they learn it's sinking to "chance it".

In order to have personal responsibility, you first have to make a conscious decision. The choice is being made for you if you aren't given vital information like "the ship is sinking".

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 5:00 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's a crime to murder a newborn, and they don't yet retain personal authority.

Newborns do not yet have it. Their parents hold it for them until a later time when it is either given to them or they emancipate themselves.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Jul 2010, 5:02 pm

leejosepho wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's a crime to murder a newborn, and they don't yet retain personal authority.

Newborns do not yet have it. Their parents hold it for them until a later time when it is either given to them or they emancipate themselves.

I disagree. I didn't need to give any personal responsibility to my children. They obtained it themselves once they were able to understand cause and effect.

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 5:08 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Xelebes wrote:

It's another way of saying conceit.

Yes, you understand.

I don't. How is it conceited to want to know ...

I was saying the principle is understood.

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leejosepho
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16 Jul 2010, 5:10 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's a crime to murder a newborn, and they don't yet retain personal authority.

Newborns do not yet have it. Their parents hold it for them until a later time when it is either given to them or they emancipate themselves.

I disagree.

No opinion had first been expressed.

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I didn't need to give any personal responsibility to my children. They obtained it themselves ...

... and you allowed them to do so and to proceed.

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