Sexism against guys

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to be honest remarks are kinda justified also. I can't really think of any reason women wear clothing like that unless they want the attention. Looking nice isn't all about revealing.

Also I don't honestly think a lot of guys are doing it to be insulting, some might think they're complimenting you by whistling. Its when they get really sexist about it - then it's wrong..

http://www.girlslearndifferently.com/classroombias.html
http://www.unicef.org/teachers/learner/gender.htm
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~eandersn ... html#SSK91
quote:
Although students perceive that teachers compliment, pay more attention to, and call on girls more often than boys, objective measures of teacher interaction, reported in numerous studies, reveal that teachers tend to favor boys on these criteria (Sadker, Sadker, and Klein 1991, 294–304).

Haliphron, if you don't like being stared at, why do you think it's ok to stare at other people?

Furthermore, why do you think that it's ok to physically intimidate someone who's smaller than you in order to alter their behavior? (P.S. she knows that if you do "slap her around," she could have you arrested for assault and battery and stick your ass in jail for years).

To the posters above: why do you assume, when you see a woman dressed nicely, that she wants attention from you? She may be on her way to a date with her boyfriend. She may have a recital after class. She may be dressed nicely for any one of a million other reasons than to get your attention.

"Stop staring at me, I hate it when people stare. STUTTERING STANLEY, STUTTERING STANLEY..."

There was one time in school when I actually said that in order to get this jerk to stop staring at me, and it worked.

Two points, though:
first, you are assuming that it's easy to tell the difference between a man staring because he wants a confrontation, and a man staring because he's attracted.

second, even if the subject can tell the difference, you're assuming that no threat is implied by a man who is staring due to attraction. A stare due to attraction implies that the man cannot keep his mind off of the subject, that he is willing to interrupt his normal business in order to stare at the subject. That, in fact, he is out of his own control. If he stares for a few seconds and then gets a grip on himself, that's one thing; if he keeps on staring, or keeps on looking back, that's a threat. A man who is not controlling himself, combined with sexual attraction towards a specific woman, is a legitimate threat.

1) thank you pbcoll; that's my favorite thing I've said in this conversation also.

2) Thank you also, whoever posted the references for classroom talking time and teacher favoritism. I've read of that too, in a book called How Girls Thrive, which is a summary of existing research on what classroom situations (overwhelmingly, single gender, among other things) are best for women learning science and mathematics.

While women are getting more college degrees than men, they haven't made a lot of headway into the kinds of college degrees that make money or give entrance into the power structure.

One thing I found particularly interesting from that book was: the usual ratio between attention to boys and attention to girls in class was 70/30. When tactics were used to even up classroom favoritism, like a simple 1/1 ratio in who was called on by gender, children of Both genders perceived it as unfair. In further evidence of routine classroom discrimination against females, boys do worse in single gender classrooms than in mixed gender ones, while girls do much better--and as mentioned before, the evidence for this last point is overwhelming.

3) On the matter of harrassment, I think we are forgetting that the vast majority of the cases on the table aren't about someone dressing (or undressing) for attention and then getting it.

I haven't been around a terribly long time, but even as a very young women I've already been:

-Followed slowly down the street by a car full of hooting men--who had done a U turn to follow me--while I was walking carrying a stack of library books up to my chin and wearing a trench coat over several layers of clothes

-Called repeatedly in the middle of the night by someone who made all sorts of lude, threatening statements--including that he was watching me, and also including my name. When I called the police about this they wouldn't even file a report, because "he wasn't actually threatening me."

-Physically harassed in a public school setting with numerous regulations against it, and repeatedly told by the teachers that "boys will be boys," or even that I was somehow at fault. I was also dressed conservatively for those occasions.

If you must stare at women you think are dressed provocatively on the street, fine, do so; I can't wish to legislate against it, as it is only in poor taste. Shifting the debate to these kinds of scenarios, though, trivializes the harm those same actions taken just a few steps further can cause.

I have had to live with a very reasonable fear for my physical well-being because this society is accepting of these behaviors. That is oppressive.

I'm not a big fan of stranger rape paranoia. I walk alone at night, because it does a lot to keep me sane. Despite these incidents, which are legitimate to call threats, I've never been stranger raped. Rape is it's own separate issue, but minimizing--especially through social means--harassment and objectification seems like a worthwhile project to me.

"if you just ignore it they will leave you alone"

"maybe you should try sitting a little further away from them"

"you could try and put your jacket on" (when they were grabbing at my t-shirt. . . my not tight, low cut, or in any way particularly revealing t-shirt. .)

and my favorite-- after, completely fed up, I threw a crumpled paper at one of the offenders--
"if you hadn't done that, we could have done something about it."

A crumpled paper, kids. That's violence for ya. . .

Edit: These were all from teachers--whose job it was to stop the harassment--and they were all at the times when it was happening.

It is not 'just biology' when it is socially acceptable, or even encouraged, for men to act in a bullying manner towards women or towards smaller men. To look at it another way, imagine a large woman behaving in that manner towards a smaller man. A little creepy, right?

We theoretically no longer believe that 'might makes right.' We theoretically no longer believe in trial by battle.