Dangerous Woman's Self Defense Myth

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Very good points, Carole and I suspect AS women might be even more naive about such situations.

For those who said that fighters wear a cup, don't forget that it's not always easy or possible to hit a guy in the groin hard enough and very few women will have the skill and force of a MMA fighter (hopefully neither will the attacker). Personally, I wouldn't do it with my knee as I don't think I would have enough force and momentum to be efficient and I might not wear clothes that give that kind of freedom to move. I would do it with the tip of my boot or a solid heel if the situation allowed though. If you can't hit hard enough you'll anger your attacker and things might get a lot worse.

Dox's approach seems very pragmatical - find the best way to buy time to run.

Very true ... every situation is different and you do what you have to do at the moment.

The advantage I had was that he was vulnerable, too. Initially, I fought him but once I realized what his intentions were, I stopped struggling and apparently that lulled him into thinking he had nothing to fear from me. I was actually very cool and calm. I waited for the best moment. I have quite strong legs and I hurt him bad. He lost all interest in me, and I was able to get the door open and get out.

In retrospect, I'm sure he wasn't 100% incapacitated, but he was incapacitated enough to stop him. This guy wasn't a psychopathic killer. I doubt that in his mind he even considered what he was doing to be "rape". He probably thought that if he was forceful enough, I would simply give in. Getting a knee in the balls was the last thing he expected.



Which is exactly what I did.

I think most of the time the date-rape scenario is materially different from being attacked by a "real" rapist. As I said, I don't think the date even considers it to be "rape". Maybe he's drunk or high and his thinking is totally whacked. I don't know. But I don't think he's an actual psycho, if you see what I mean. That doesn't mean you'd be any less raped, but it does mean you can use different tactics when dealing with them. You might even be able to talk him out of it.

The intentional rapist is different. These men are extremely dangerous ... they're the ones who hate women and who just might rape you then kill you in the bargain. I believe the most important line of defense is to avoid situations where you're susceptible to them in the first place.

Last edited by CaroleTucson on 02 Jan 2011, 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

I'm just glad you managed to get out of there... I know how many women on this forum (and elsewhere) were raped and I'm happy at least some of us caught a break...

You gotta "love" such guys - these days he might be married with kids and not even remember the whole thing. Have you seen that thread in the L&D asking what's wrong with "non-violent" rape? It made my husband a lot angrier than me and I sort of understand why...

I haven't seen it, but that topic makes me angry too.

Your husband's reaction makes me think of what a male friend of mine thinks would be the proper punishment for those who sexually assault women or girls:

Lock him in a room for one hour with her father, brothers, male cousins, boyfriend/husband, sons if applicable, and all her male friends.

I suspect that dude's genes would never get a chance to be perpetuated.

BTW, I edited my previous post after you responded to it. Just wanted to make that clear

If you get all the male friends and close relations, 1 hour might be a bit excessive . A bunch of angry guys might just get carried away enough to kill him. I fully understand why "normal" men don't want to be associated with such scum though...



No worries - it's a sensible addition either way

Very good point, if I'd started writing from a general self defense perspective instead of being motivated by the faultiness of the whole junk shot thing I would have really hammered on this one. Situational awareness is the #1 rule of self defense, both to avoid dangerous situations in the first place and to avoid turning a bad incident into a worse one. I find that it's hard to instill the full importance of it in people in a casual or online environment though, being aware all the time is more of a mindset thing and is often more commitment than most people want to devote to what they consider a remote possibility.



I can never recall the exact number, in attacks on women something north of 3/4 are in fact grabbed from behind. This is the situation that I do wish more women were comfortable with knives for, nothing encourages someone to let go of you quite like a knife between the knuckles... This is actually where I think electric stun guns have a legit use, it's not quite as convincing as getting cut, but a powerful shock is likely to make someone let you go long enough to make a break. Absent either of those options, learning some basic joint locks for the hands and wrists is an excellent idea, though like my advice before you should never attempt to control someone with a hold, just break the joint and use the opportunity to get away.

Multiple assailants is really the situation that firearms are designed for, but there are a few other options if one is not available. The technique I described earlier for running while spraying an irritant is very applicable, especially in a confined or linearly defined space such as an alley, the spray doesn't care that it's more than one person pursuing you. This is also a situation where if you have to fight, you need to do enough damage to your opponent that they are effectively out of the conflict; break a joint, crush a trachea, gouge an eye, whatever it takes. If you're really lucky, whatever you did is so awful that his accomplice(s) are momentarily stunned, giving you the chance to run. Even if that doesn't occur, it's one less threat to worry about and gives the police a better shot at finding the guy when he goes to the hospital. Another point to remember is that in many jurisdictions, if you're attacked by multiple assailants it is considered deadly force, and you are legally justified in using any available means to defend yourself; take advantage of that leeway in any way that you can. Again it should be stressed though, avoidance is far preferable to this kind of encounter and that means being alert and aware of your surroundings.



This is a tough one to deal with, especially given the way that woman's clothing doesn't offer much in the way of possibilities for concealment and even a prepared woman is likely to have left any weapon in her purse (a practice I discourage, especially with guns). Not to belabor the point, but this is another good argument for a little basic self defense involving familiarity with vital points and how to strike them. I'm glad that the improvised groin strike worked out for you, against an unprepared and soft assailant it can definitely work, I just wouldn't rely on it.

Thinking about both the grabbed from behind and the date rape scenarios, one particular piece of equipment comes to mind; the neck knife. This is a very small fixed blade knife that is carried in a friction or magnetic sheath suspended handle down from around the neck. You wear it under your shirt so it hangs just below your chest, and is accessed by lifting up the forward edge of your shirt and pulling the knife straight down, making it accessible whether you're face down on the ground or strapped into a car seat, especially if you feign compliance. In either situation the drawing motion looks like your taking your top off, but the blade then comes out very fast for a slash at the face or throat; probably not what the attacker had in mind for the encounter. My aforementioned caveats about carrying a knife definitely apply here, but if you're able to make the decision to carry a blade a neck knife is an excellent and practical option.

I carry a mace baton. This allows me to spray to ward off danger as well as use it as a weapon to defend myself. I have not had to use it yet. I figured it's best to keep things simple and legal.

In MMA, crotch shots are illegal. Therefore a kick to the nuts is almost always accidental, and actually aiming somewhere else. Add to this the fact that these are conditioned fighters, and you're far, far from a deliberate shot in a self-defence scenario.

If you grab someone squarely by the shoulders and drive your knee up between their legs, you will have more success. It's quick too, so you can rinse and repeat about 1.5 times a second, or faster if you want to sacrifice force (don't). One firm, well-trained knee to the nuts will at the very least give you an opening for another. Each successive one will be worse. Therefore, you can just do it until they're grounded.

Muay Thai knees are fun for all sorts of things.

Be that as it may, even more important than the fact that the crotch shot isn't the guaranteed one hitter quitter that some people think it is, is that it's so predictable. The kind of person who's likely to attack a woman is also likely to know that the first thing he should expect is a shot at his balls, and be appropriately prepared. Better to hit him somewhere more unexpected and likely to hinder pursuit, such as under the kneecap or breaking the instep.

I also took Muay Thai; I found it to be better as a conditioning exercise than as a street fighting technique since it seems to focus so much on raw power over finesse and subtlety. To my mind, getting close enough to clinch up is seceding the edge when you're talking a male vs female fight, maintaining distance minimizes the likely strength disparity and allows for more opportunity to hit and run. I also dislike the high kicks in Muay Thai, they present far too much opportunity for an opponent to trap and damage your leg, at which point you're screwed.

Erp, double-post.

Last edited by Whisper on 13 Jan 2011, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Prepared how? Wearing a box or steel chastity belt is unlikely given his intentions. There are very few defences at that range to a knee between the legs that won't result in an at least partial hit (thus offering the opportunity for another, and another, and another..).



'Expected' doesn't really matter in this scenario. Punches are expected in MMA, there's a reason they still go straight through the flowery trapping techniques that more obscure martial arts throw out. Kneecap shots and instep shots are nice, but require a) more training and b) a more circumstantial set-up. They also have a far smaller chance of this elusive 1HKO.

A far better warning would be that no single strike is guaranteed to disable an attacker, and repeated strikes at key points until your opponent is foetal is the best option.



Finesse and subtlety offer very little when someone's trying to rape you. I'll take "grind their testicles/eyeballs/neck into a fine dust" any day.



This seems to assume that all rapes happen in a dimly lit CSI-style affair, with a helpless victim wandering down a darkened alley, clutching her handbag against the sudden chill, etc, etc. In actuality many rapes occur while someone is already in your personal space, home or bedroom. In these situations, not only will things be far closer quarters, but 'hit and run' will not be as viable an option.



I'm not offering up MT as a perfect martial art (there aren't any). But for teaching people to utilize knee and elbow strikes, there are none better I've found.

For personal self defence I've found learning a combination of Muay Thai and (Japanese) Jujitsu to be most effective.


If the person attempting to rape you is a highly trained martial artist, chances are you're screwed regardless. That said, high kicks in any MA are a hilariously bad idea. High commitment, telegraphed, et cetera. Avoid them.

I'm going to offer another perspective here. While maintaining sufficient distance would be ideal, one might also want to consider that moving inside an attacker's range of attack can be effective, too. Getting inside an attacker's kicking and punching range allows the defender to use elbow and knee strikes (not to mention head butts) that can be difficult to counter. Yet, you're still not quite in grappling (or clinching) range. If an attacker is trying to grab you, it might be better to step inside and rake your elbow across the attacker's face, execute a slap (as previously described) to his ear(s), strike his eyes with your fingertips, or just go for a properly executed head butt. By stepping inside the attacker's range you're also going against behavior that the attacker would expect a victim to make. You can still make simple, effective strikes to stun-and-run.

This is a good thread.

I think many women may have less exposure to fighting because it supposedly not ladylike and misconceptions can happen.

I'm just wondering if anyone has tips on how to deal with freezing when attacked, either during the event or the trauma after?

Practice with a friend. The more muscle memory you get, the less cognitive initiative it takes to activate during a real life situation. Sparring is good, also practicing what to do when you get grabbed from front, back, wrist, neck, etc.

Best chance of overall raising your chances:
Take regular martial arts or self defense classes at a good school
Understand/discuss the rest of it besides the moves

Then you will be used to reacting quickly in a manner of different ways despite what may go wrong or be different in each scenario,
and know how to avoid such scenarios more often in the first place.

Nothing like practice, practice, practice.

I was fairly good at sparring, I just froze when it actually happened. I told the guy no but he kept on going and I froze. I don't know how to make sure I don't freeze again. It's a source of stress for me.