Being nice

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To use the charming phrase another member here is fond of, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You had to snip both ends of my sentence to make it sound like I was saying women don't do well in meritocracies, so you could cast yourself as disagreeing with an argument I never made. Given that I know your reading comprehension is not that poor, I'm left with point scoring as the only reason you'd butcher my point so thoroughly.



The whole cutting off both ends of my sentence thing? And I agree, it's not germane, you chose to make it so when you misquoted and mischaracterized me.



You weren't there, I was, perhaps you should reflect that reality in your responses. Where I worked, everyone was in competition with each other, the women I worked with happened to respond differently to that pressure than the men, that's the whole point of my original post to this thread, though some people seem to take offense to that simple observation.



None of the men I worked with responded to the competitions of the job by complaining of being singled out or picked on, most of the women did, that's not my spin or something, that's the reality of what I saw.



You were not there. Like I said above, the different responses broke very clearly according to gender, in multiple shops in multiple cities in multiple states; that's anecdotal, but pretty wide for anecdote all the same.



Like the goings on in my shops over the years, you wouldn't know.

Since a number of people seem to be having problems with it though, I'm going to change out 'meritocracy' for 'no BS', to give a better sense of what I mean. Culinary work is one of the few places where you can't really play office politics, either you can do the work or you can't, and it's really obvious really quickly, whether it's running deliveries or working the line during busy services, and that's all I meant, a job where you have to put up or shut up.

Dox47, have you worked with any nice people... Did you notice any differences between the genders?

^Your original unedited sentence.^

"most of the women I worked with did not do very well at all when the competition was out in the open and strongly meritocratic"

You said, as is illustrated above, that in your experience women don't do well in meritocracies. You say it quite clearly. Why are you backing away from your statement?

It's just your experience, Dox. That of one person ... it carries no more weight than anybody elses'.

So women's responses to the work environment are BS? Way to marginalize a group. Their perceived response is BS, not their perceived response could indicate a bad work environment.

I often feel I am too nice. Even if I don't like someone, I always feel fake when I am civil with them because I don't like conflicts or like to be mean and if I were to have a gathering at my house and decide to invite the whole entire autism group, I would definitely invite that person too but still try and steer clear of them. I wouldn't do silent treatments if they talk to me. I would try and keep it short and do short responses, do not ask questions or make any comments or tell my own stories. It takes a lot for me to not like someone. Unless you are someone who easily insults people, take things the wrong way, easily get upset and blow up and start verbally attacking, taking things out of context and you always seem to be looking for things to be offended by or to argue about or even get mad or impatient with me easily, then I steer clear of you. Luckily I never had to deal with office politics so I can never relate to it or understand the big deal about it. I mean just ignore it and don't get involved. I have ran into very few ladies who I could not get along with. No matter what I did, I just kept on annoying them so it felt I like I would have to walk on eggshells and none of them were at my work, one was related to my father and the other was in one of the groups I attended. Plus there was one other woman I ran into at a munch and she got annoyed with me too but it turns out it wasn't me, she was just uncomfortable there because it was a new experience for her.

But my mom however worked a job where the boss was a jerk and bullied her employers to quit so she would hire someone new and pay them less money and after about five years, she starts the whole cycle again to get those new nurses to quit so she can pay less money again because there is a law that you have to give them raises every so often. That I can understand why my mother would quit and because she is a nurse, it's not a problem going somewhere else to work because nurses are always needed. But she called it all office politics. Workplace bullying I can understand but not office politics. My mom dealt with workplace bullying.

^I'm the same. I'm always too nice and go along with what other people want instead.

Andro, I take back what I said about your reading comprehension, you obviously have no idea what I actually said, or you're so intent on smearing me that you're willing to twist things to the point that you might as well not. Try reading my posts a few more times and get back to me, otherwise this just seems like a waste of my time.

To be really general, nice men have tended towards easy going, where as nice woman have tended towards kind/caring.

Concluding on an ad hominem? I think it is you who needs to re-read your words.

I don't understand why you are taking this personally.

Ad hominem? I spelled things out so clearly that I'm left with two possible explanations for your responses, incomprehension or malice; take your pick.

Good grief, she's not smearing you or twisting anything, you yourself said that the women you worked with did not do well with meritocracies. Whether or not you make any conclusions about "women" based on that, isn't even the point, it's how you perceived the women that you worked with, the conclusions you made about them and are writing here about. You're putting these ideas out yourself then acting like someone else put words in your mouth.

Thanks dianthus. I was starting to second guess my sanity.

I don't understand why you won't stand behind your own words.

That's because he's trying to gaslight you.

Reset. The thread about Being Nice has been derailed into something else.

You people have gas-lighting on the brain; even if I were, why would I do it online, where there is a written record of exactly what was said? Really, even for autistic people this is terrible ToM.

I offered my experience and took pains to point out that it was just my experience, and it was distorted into a general pronouncement that I didn't make, and then the distortion was denied. That kind of thing tends to annoy people, myself included.

I think the friction in my work relates to competition, confidence and how different people react to challenges. I just happen to work with mostly women.

Performance in Competitive Environments: Gender Differences

Generalisations about women posted by men in the women's forum are very likely to cause animosity, so stop digging. "You People" accusations also add fuel to the fire. Moderators are tired of the derailments that tend to happen here and the crossfire that ensues.