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inachildsmind
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24 Feb 2014, 2:21 pm

jamie2 wrote:
Dreycrux wrote:
Telling the truth is not being mean or rude. How can I feel bad? When I had a girlfriend I told her it doesn't make sense to call me rude when I tell the truth. I told her instead she should just think "Oh. maybe I am acting that way...I should change that" But instead she just gets angry and says I'm mean or rude or whatever.

No logic at all.


This exact same situation happens to me, like almost every time I get into a fight with her. However, she keeps insisting I change, but she refuses to notice that she needs to too, or that I have changed or tried to change, but it's maybe not working as she likes, maybe because I can't, but I am not sure.


I go through this with my boyfriend. He keeps thinking I have control over every word and action I do, I tell him I just speak from my head. He is the one that has the most control as he should be able to see when he is pushing things, as I can not. I try to change,people tell me something I need to work on, I listen as they can see me in a way I can not see myself. If its about them however, it is a different story. He can not see what he does wrong, yet I am able to take what he says as advice and he takes what I say as being rude or as criticism. I read in a book on AS that we can handle "honest criticism" because "WE" tend to want to better ourselves often. As with NT's they just hear that we are telling them what to do or like we are attacking them. To be honest though, I think NT's and AS people do the same things to each other. We get offended when our logic and expertise is insulted and they get offended when our honesty hurts their feelings. We all defend ourselves. It just seems impossible to get along when emotions are involved like so.



Dreycrux
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24 Feb 2014, 8:00 pm

inachildsmind wrote:
jamie2 wrote:
Dreycrux wrote:
Telling the truth is not being mean or rude. How can I feel bad? When I had a girlfriend I told her it doesn't make sense to call me rude when I tell the truth. I told her instead she should just think "Oh. maybe I am acting that way...I should change that" But instead she just gets angry and says I'm mean or rude or whatever.

No logic at all.


This exact same situation happens to me, like almost every time I get into a fight with her. However, she keeps insisting I change, but she refuses to notice that she needs to too, or that I have changed or tried to change, but it's maybe not working as she likes, maybe because I can't, but I am not sure.


I go through this with my boyfriend. He keeps thinking I have control over every word and action I do, I tell him I just speak from my head. He is the one that has the most control as he should be able to see when he is pushing things, as I can not. I try to change,people tell me something I need to work on, I listen as they can see me in a way I can not see myself. If its about them however, it is a different story. He can not see what he does wrong, yet I am able to take what he says as advice and he takes what I say as being rude or as criticism. I read in a book on AS that we can handle "honest criticism" because "WE" tend to want to better ourselves often. As with NT's they just hear that we are telling them what to do or like we are attacking them. To be honest though, I think NT's and AS people do the same things to each other. We get offended when our logic and expertise is insulted and they get offended when our honesty hurts their feelings. We all defend ourselves. It just seems impossible to get along when emotions are involved like so.


Oh wow perfectly said. Yes emotions trump logic with people who are not on the spectrum. My girlfriend always said it's amazing that I don't have an ego or anything to prove and I try and be a better person everyday. I really do take insults as constructive criticism.


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25 Feb 2014, 12:56 am

I wish that co-workers and other people I have to deal with would say that they're mad, and why they're mad, instead of just silently escalating. It's like they want to get so mad they explode on someone they barely know, god forbid they deal with it rationally and assume I'm a halfway decent human being that might apologize for accidentally cutting in line, blocking someones path, staring, etc.



jamie2
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25 Feb 2014, 1:27 am

Wow, guys this is exactly all I am going through, today I was very sad, cause the fighting doesn't seem to stop and everyone is constantly yelling at me. I really trying really hard to stop the fighting but it seems when I say something I make it worst. I have no idea what is going on.



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25 Feb 2014, 2:21 am

I don't do arguments. I get into debates.

Sometimes debates can take on a personal or emotional tone, and sometimes I might want to raise my voice. I take these as signs that our debate is mutating into an argument, and walk away.



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25 Feb 2014, 3:25 am

I never get into arguments because I'm always right.



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25 Feb 2014, 9:18 am

Dillogic wrote:
I never get into arguments because I'm always right.


Oh God, don't I wish I had that luxury :D

Anyway, I realize that I don't start arguments at all really, unless they're about politics or something. But my ex would pick arguments with more a couple of times for no reason and then I'd have to spend time pointing out why that was stupid, since I could point out everytime I did something that she accused me of not doing. Luckily it would calm down and things would be good after a while but still.....



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25 Feb 2014, 11:00 am

In reference to all the people getting upset at emotional people not being logical when an argument is happening...

It's quite frankly illogical to assume that someone will not get emotional about things that most people get emotional about or that they'll not get emotionally upset about something they often have gotten upset about in the past. That's simple pattern recognition and doesn't even require understanding of why.
It IS unfair for you to call them rude if you know full well that they are reacting far more emotionally than you are. What are they supposed to do, cut off their emotions somehow? You -do- know that it's far easier to be considerate of someone else when you're not emotional yourself, than it is for someone who's emotional to stop being emotional, right? Like, if I'm emotional about something, logically knowing that I'm overreacting to a situation probably isn't going to make me less emotional. I suppose I have some emotional mental issues though, like being depressed and getting overwhelmed easily and randomly. And I'm tired a lot of the time too, so my emotions will just sorta go off on their own half the time anyways.

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean that it's somehow the other person's fault for being emotionally involved with something and that they're in the wrong. It's ultimately not helpful playing a blame game or a 'I'm being reasonable but you're not' game either most of the time.


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bumble
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25 Feb 2014, 11:33 am

Dreycrux wrote:
Telling the truth is not being mean or rude. How can I feel bad? When I had a girlfriend I told her it doesn't make sense to call me rude when I tell the truth. I told her instead she should just think "Oh. maybe I am acting that way...I should change that" But instead she just gets angry and says I'm mean or rude or whatever.

No logic at all.


Are you telling her the truth or are you just telling her how you personally perceive/interpret things.

The only thing I consider to be a truth as such are proven facts. Beyond that it is all subjective and has bugger all to do with truth at all.



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25 Feb 2014, 11:40 am

To answer the OP I get into a lot of arguments on the internet but in real life I am bit too timid to argue back. An argument rarely breaks out as I rarely have any contact with other humans anyway (no partner, no boyfriend, no friends, no family, no support worker...just me, alone, every day unless I go out and chat to old people at bus stops) but if one does occur I tend to just walk away.

I don't like arguments so won't actually take part in them in person.

Now if the person who is yelling at me would care to come back and talk to me rationally when they have calmed down I might be willing to listen and launch a discussion about it. Otherwise I just stay out of the way of conflict in the real world and even online these days. I don't log on much because I am tired of human dramas.

Life is too short, I am too old and I just want to enjoy my existence on earth...without other people making it unpleasant by getting upset over s**t that, in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter. What's more is that they often get upset over something I have done only in their imagination. It is their interpretation of my words and actions that upsets them, not the words and actions themselves.

Also I dislike the way humans turn everything into a problem.

Personally I don't have problems, I just have works in progress or puzzles to solve (it's all in how you choose to perceive it)

They are more fun to deal with that way. Puzzles to solve rather than being horrible things that induce distress and suffering.

When other humans are involved in my life they like to turn my Puzzling works of progress into problems instead at which point they start becoming stressful whereas before attempting to solve the puzzle was fun.

I like to use a little imagination. It makes life more fun.

Humans spoil my party for one...



inachildsmind
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25 Feb 2014, 12:18 pm

cavernio wrote:
In reference to all the people getting upset at emotional people not being logical when an argument is happening...

It's quite frankly illogical to assume that someone will not get emotional about things that most people get emotional about or that they'll not get emotionally upset about something they often have gotten upset about in the past. That's simple pattern recognition and doesn't even require understanding of why.
It IS unfair for you to call them rude if you know full well that they are reacting far more emotionally than you are. What are they supposed to do, cut off their emotions somehow? You -do- know that it's far easier to be considerate of someone else when you're not emotional yourself, than it is for someone who's emotional to stop being emotional, right? Like, if I'm emotional about something, logically knowing that I'm overreacting to a situation probably isn't going to make me less emotional. I suppose I have some emotional mental issues though, like being depressed and getting overwhelmed easily and randomly. And I'm tired a lot of the time too, so my emotions will just sorta go off on their own half the time anyways.

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean that it's somehow the other person's fault for being emotionally involved with something and that they're in the wrong. It's ultimately not helpful playing a blame game or a 'I'm being reasonable but you're not' game either most of the time.


Well for one you must have misread what everyone has said. The "other side" I say that in quotes cause I am tired of calling everyone who is emotional NT, any way, the "other side" are the ones that have been calling us rude. You said "It IS unfair for you to call them rude...etc." You obviously got emotional about this post cause you are attacking anyone who said something you found unfair without noticing you were misreading what we were all talking about. No one ever really blamed anyone, we were just noticing how arguments escalate when instead of the other person answering our questions to why we hurt them or made them upset, they chose to dwell on the fact that they are. We understand that it is easy for others to be emotional compared to people on the Spectrum, we were only bringing that point forward to someone who did not understand why the other person was getting upset with them. As the stuff I have read on here, I have not seen anyone actually blame people for being emotional, only pointing out that we do not understand why they do when many things can be worked out with out the yelling, crying and screaming. I simply said that I honestly believe we both do it to each other. The ones who think logically get offended and the ones that think emotionally get upset, pretty much the same pattern of thinking, just a different mindset. So as I do not speak for everyone here, I will just point out that you may have gotten upset about something you misread. I hope this clears it up for you. If it does not then maybe I missed a post somewhere but I believe I have read most of them correctly.

I am sorry if you get depressed and emotional often. I hope you find ways to cope. I mean that in a genuine way too.



Last edited by inachildsmind on 25 Feb 2014, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

inachildsmind
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25 Feb 2014, 12:24 pm

bumble wrote:
To answer the OP I get into a lot of arguments on the internet but in real life I am bit too timid to argue back. An argument rarely breaks out as I rarely have any contact with other humans anyway (no partner, no boyfriend, no friends, no family, no support worker...just me, alone, every day unless I go out and chat to old people at bus stops) but if one does occur I tend to just walk away.

I don't like arguments so won't actually take part in them in person.

Now if the person who is yelling at me would care to come back and talk to me rationally when they have calmed down I might be willing to listen and launch a discussion about it. Otherwise I just stay out of the way of conflict in the real world and even online these days. I don't log on much because I am tired of human dramas.

Life is too short, I am too old and I just want to enjoy my existence on earth...without other people making it unpleasant by getting upset over sh** that, in the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter. What's more is that they often get upset over something I have done only in their imagination. It is their interpretation of my words and actions that upsets them, not the words and actions themselves.

Also I dislike the way humans turn everything into a problem.

Personally I don't have problems, I just have works in progress or puzzles to solve (it's all in how you choose to perceive it)

They are more fun to deal with that way. Puzzles to solve rather than being horrible things that induce distress and suffering.

When other humans are involved in my life they like to turn my Puzzling works of progress into problems instead at which point they start becoming stressful whereas before attempting to solve the puzzle was fun.

I like to use a little imagination. It makes life more fun.

Humans spoil my party for one...


Loved what you wrote. I could not have said it better myself. I think as you, everything is a puzzle and I just enjoy finding ways to solve it. Unfortunately I do not have the pleasure (i only say pleasure cause deep down inside I would love to be alone more often) of not facing humans. Ha, I use the word Human often as well. My issue is I think people will understand my way of solving puzzles and that, in its self, has cause arguments cause I hear "In the real world, life doesnt work that way" and so I think "why, we have the ability to make it". So enjoy your puzzles, if you are happy with how you are and where you are in life, do what you want and you are right, in the end all this petty tif taf will be meaningless. I just want to spend my life doing what I love :)



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25 Feb 2014, 6:18 pm

jamie2 wrote:
Recently I realized I have been having great difficulties doing anything without having everyone get angry with me and start to fight.

I don't get that as bad as I used to, but I sometimes am assumed not to care about something as I back off before an argument starts, because I know how bad it used to get; either due to misunderstandings or because I get angry when people won't listen to reason. As mentioned in another thread, I nearly resigned from one of the cat club committees I was on as I was not properly contributing to discussions in case I started an argument.

I am better at defusing arguments than I was ten years ago, but I wish people were more amenable to reason instead of trying to get their own way by manipulating words and bringing things into discussions that have no place there.


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25 Feb 2014, 9:47 pm

I rarely get into arguments, because I rarely say my real opinion about anything, and when I do I like to just say it once or twice at the most and let it go, but it's likely to make someone mad and then they will try to pick an argument with me.

I have this idea in my mind that I say my opinion, they say their opinion, and we don't have to agree or do anything about it, it's just putting it out there so you both know where the other person stands on a topic, but of course it doesn't work that way. People get mad.



jamie2
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26 Feb 2014, 5:06 am

It's really interesting, what everyone has mentioned. What I tend to find weird though is that I keep getting into fights over things I don't think are arguments, it's not like I really want to talk to people about something or mention my opinion. Regardless, I walk into an argument, unbeknownst to me. For example, the other day I was talking about taxes, and I just wanted to clarify something about filing for taxes, instantly without me realizing what I did, the person started arguing with me, or yelling at me, I have no idea what upset them, and I never have gotten the answer to my question. These things happen often, with different situations, it's really weird for me. Usually I get into arguments without realizing it, when trying to find information about something, since I don't really tend to be a highly opinionated person about anything and tend to always consider both sides, which also causes arguments on its own.



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26 Feb 2014, 5:29 am

I tend to interrupt people a lot, also am not a good listener (auditory processing issues). So people tend to get annoyed. This is me trying to control what I say as well. The most common complaints about me is "you don't let me finish" and "you're not really listening". If I really get to say what I want I think I can blow off most of my contacts within one day. :D

I wish most people enjoy cool headed debate but most people don't like it. You try a rational argument and within a few minutes they're so insulted, it's like you've committed awful crime against their whole family or something. That's why I try to keep my mouth shut if I'm not sure what to say. I'm probably considered one of the better adapted aspies and even I'm resentful about social interactions. I'm never gonna get it right. Even to those close to me who know I'm a nice person, I'm often rude, neglectful, bossy, inattentive, uncaring, unsympathetic or just overall awkward. It's just a losing battle.


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