Novel way to improve autism tolerance

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Griff
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13 Aug 2007, 7:06 pm

Izaak wrote:
Who is this supposedly aimed at? When is this behaviour to start?
1) Most autists. The ideal would fit the usual frame-work of a kind-hearted NT child playing a protective role for a geekier child who can't defend him or herself as well. Essentially, these children would be given simple instructions to play a protective role for kids who are struggling socially, emotionally or academically. It isn't likely that they'd be old enough to understand fully the idea of autism, so it would be preferable to save the complete explanation for when they're old enough to understand. 2) It would actually start very early in education. Basically, the NT children would be engaged in the idea of taking it upon themselves to protect and act as a role-model for kids who are having trouble socializing or keeping their materials organized.

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And children are not little tyrants because they are naturally born a***holes. They are tyrants because they haven't learned how the world works and how to properly interact with things. It's why they aren't left alone with babies, kittens, puppies, or chocolate cake mix. The level of sophistication you are expecting from little humans that eat their own boogers and torture ants and bugs with magnifying glasses on a sunny day is astounding.
Not necessarily. A child's protective instincts can be quite active at a very young age.

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I would suggest much like mmaestro and nobodyzdream have intimated that there will always be a natural subset of "protectors." Those noble children who get their self-worth out of helping others rather than in looking cool or tough in front of others. They perhaps could be encouraged in that behaviour.
That's basically what I'm getting at. I just have a talent for making good ideas come across as incredibly strange. I take pride in it, usually.

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But as a general rule, children are not adults and lack the sophistication neccassary to implement your ideas without constant supervision.
As others have pointed out, there are already well-supervised mentoring programs in place. I wasn't necessarily the first to the idea. I just happened to throw it into a bolder light.



Griff
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13 Aug 2007, 7:09 pm

Stitch wrote:
lol, that's one of the worst ideas ever, sorry :p
I did expect negative reactions, but I hoped for more sophisticated criticisms than what you've given.



Macbeth
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13 Aug 2007, 7:14 pm

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Autists and Aspies may have a tendency to make untoward comments about another person's appearance, and it sometimes results in persecution and social marginalization.


Not always a bad thing, or undesirable though. My ex wife STILL asks me "does this make my bum look big" style questions about her clothes, because she knows full well she is going to get the most honest reply from me. (Often as not "your big bum makes your bum look big") Its far better than the evasive answers she gets from her current husband.


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Griff
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13 Aug 2007, 7:31 pm

Macbeth wrote:
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Autists and Aspies may have a tendency to make untoward comments about another person's appearance, and it sometimes results in persecution and social marginalization.


Not always a bad thing, or undesirable though. My ex wife STILL asks me "does this make my bum look big" style questions about her clothes, because she knows full well she is going to get the most honest reply from me. (Often as not "your big bum makes your bum look big") Its far better than the evasive answers she gets from her current husband.
Hehehe, that may be because women are getting better at spotting duplicity and don't take as kindly as they used to to being patronized.



Stitch
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13 Aug 2007, 7:35 pm

"Hehehe, that may be because women are getting better at spotting duplicity and don't take as kindly as they used to to being patronized."

No, the rule is: If a woman asks you if her bum looks big in something, you say no no matter what. Otherwise you get in trouble...

"I did expect negative reactions, but I hoped for more sophisticated criticisms than what you've given."

I'm sorry, but it's just too silly. And calling yourself a pet, isn't going to get anybody laid. I say this as someone who was bullied and beaten every day for eight years, so I think my credentials are in order.



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13 Aug 2007, 7:52 pm

Overall I think its a bad idea because it isnt strictly speaking all true. Aspies can have a certain apparent social innocence, but we can also display huge levels of advancement over and above NTs. Teaching Nts that we are like children or puppies leads to the same problem as a lot of lower function disorders get. My ex wifes cousin is downs syndrome, reasonably well functioning, but is dressed and treated like a 5 year old, even at age 35, even though she isnt one. nor is she stupid.

I dont consider myself to be socially innocent anyway, more socially inept. i understand that there ARE complexities of social interaction going on that i miss or misinterpret, where as a child is usually not even aware that they exist to start with. This approach is at best, kept to a kindergarten level. It would be just as sufficient to teach other children that an aspie child is merely different, rather than less advanced. (In much the same way as small children are educated that black children are NOT different, in any way other than tonally.)


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CockneyRebel
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13 Aug 2007, 8:06 pm

I am a Cockney Rebel! Don't shelter me!



Griff
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13 Aug 2007, 8:41 pm

Actually, the Aspie child is probably more advanced, genetically. Because of our higher levels of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine, we should, with the proper care and nurturing, reach the height of human potential. We'd need special attention, however, to improving certain connections as a result of some of the overload we experience earlier in life. Perhaps relaxation techniques could work to reduce some of the overload damage. In a society of Aspies, women would probably be socially dominant, at least until their men have fully developed. Once they'd reached full maturity, though, they would generally possess some advantages. They probably wouldn't take well to politics in most cases, though. In an Aspie society, expect the PM or President to be a female, rather than a male, and expect men to pursue lines of work that take advantage of their higher connectivity in certain parts of the brain. There would be men and women in all fields as we have now, but these are the socio-political patterns that I would expect in a society of Aspergians. Of course, I could always be wrong.

Anyway, although Aspies are arguably more advanced genetically, it would take more time for us to finish developing. Taking care of one would be like tending to a child of some alien race that has childhoods lasting over two decades. Although its parents would be superior, the child would still be a child. Pardon my odd-sounding metaphor, but I think that it's very nearly accurate. Basically, Aspies are just a geekier breed of human. What I'm hoping to enhance is the trend of neurotypical females who enjoy high serotonin and prolactin levels choosing to associate with more intelligent or creative peers of the opposite sex. Of course, this would go the other way around as well, but, as we know, most Aspies tend to be male. Anyway, although the neurotypicals would take the more dominant role during childhood, this behavioral trend would develop into more equitable relationships later in life. The Aspergian child would benefit from accepting the idea of enjoying a longer, more fruitful childhood. That's the theory, anyway. Basically, we'd just have a constant trend of younger people organizing themselves to look out for those who can't fend for themselves.

Once started, they'd keep it up on their own. Take, for example, the gay-straight alliance clubs that have been forming at several secondary schools across the country. If a similar trend could be set in motion for Aspies, then we'd be pretty much set. We'd have a dedicated group of young people whose cheif goal is to improve the quality of life for young Aspergians. You have to admit, some of the awkwardness exhibited by Aspies can have a high "cute factor" at times.

I'm just putting it out there as an idea. It's got its strong points and deficiencies, just as an Aspie does.



manalitwist
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13 Aug 2007, 8:50 pm

Ok Griff, im bookmarking you.


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Griff
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13 Aug 2007, 9:02 pm

manalitwist wrote:
Ok Griff, im bookmarking you.
Because I'm crazy or because I'm ingenius? I tend to think they're one and the same, though, lol.



misspuff
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13 Aug 2007, 10:53 pm

Griff wrote:
Umm...it might also improve our chances of getting laid, which some of us seriously, seriously need.


You need social skills to get laid? Seriously?
Just make a quick trip to the closest ATM and then to "that" lovely area of your city/town. Or Nevada. Y'know.



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13 Aug 2007, 10:53 pm

Griff wrote:
An Aspie's childhood NT mentor could very well become his or her adulthood lover. Since most Aspies are boys and their most likely mentors are young women, this sort of relational transformation is actually quite likely. It would work the same as a nurse and patient falling in love.

I can't begin to tell you how bad an idea this is. For starters, you're talking about a parent/child relationship. There are good reasons (not just genetic ones) that the idea of siblings/parents/children hooking up disturb people. The power structure in the relationship, for one thing, gets completely messed up, and that criticism in particular would carry over into your hypothetical set up.
Priests would be a good example, where an individual in a position of authority and power can abuse the trust of their charge. If you try to move things in this direction, I can't begin to say the potential for abuse. That's why we say that teachers and students cannot date, we try to erect barriers, even where the individual relationship might be healthy, if allowed it opens the door to far more abusive relationships to go on unchecked, which is why we place a blanket ban across allowing stuff like this happening. And heck, I'd rather not make a social pariah out of the mentor, too.
Bad, bad, bad.
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I just have a talent for making good ideas come across as incredibly strange. I take pride in it, usually.

Perhaps you might try to take pride in making good ideas come across as, y'know, good ideas?


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13 Aug 2007, 10:55 pm

Griff wrote:
Actually, the Aspie child is probably more advanced, genetically.


Technically overweight people are also blessed genetically, but no one likes them very much either.



Griff
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14 Aug 2007, 1:09 am

mmaestro wrote:
Griff wrote:
An Aspie's childhood NT mentor could very well become his or her adulthood lover. Since most Aspies are boys and their most likely mentors are young women, this sort of relational transformation is actually quite likely. It would work the same as a nurse and patient falling in love.

I can't begin to tell you how bad an idea this is. For starters, you're talking about a parent/child relationship. There are good reasons (not just genetic ones) that the idea of siblings/parents/children hooking up disturb people.
I could probably ferret out the exact reason for it, too. It's a definite possibility that being exposed to sexual stimulation or even thinking it at too early an age could result in a permanent, semi-permanent or, at least, very frequent drop in serotonin levels. The reason for this is that serotonin suppresses the libido, and this is the hormone that's going to be nixed while we're experiencing sexual lust. If maintaining high levels of serotonin is important for some aspects of a child's mental development, then it would be unhealthy for a child to be exposed to lustful emotions at too early an age. If you gave me enough time, I could probably work out for you exactly what keeps us from screwing our kids, and I could probably come up with a viable treatment for pathological pedophilia just to brighten your day.

However, this wouldn't be a problem in the case that we are referring to. As these guys grew in age, they would also grow to see one another as equals. This would have the effect of tripping the switch that you're referring to. This relational transformation happens quite a lot. It happened in my case, although I was playing the role of the nurturer.

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if allowed it opens the door to far more abusive relationships to go on unchecked, which is why we place a blanket ban across allowing stuff like this happening.
How do you propose one would lead to the other, again?

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Quote:
I just have a talent for making good ideas come across as incredibly strange. I take pride in it, usually.

Perhaps you might try to take pride in making good ideas come across as, y'know, good ideas?
No. I have an intense personality, and my thought processes match it. I like it that way. If you can't keep pace, that's not my problem.



Griff
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14 Aug 2007, 2:35 am

misspuff wrote:
Griff wrote:
Actually, the Aspie child is probably more advanced, genetically.


Technically overweight people are also blessed genetically, but no one likes them very much either.
Careful with that cortisol, babe. It does a number on your hippocampus, and it makes your thighs flabby. It's also really bad for your heart. If you don't want to have a stroke by the time you're 45, learn to relax. Asperger is not a disease, it's not a disorder, and it's not a disability. It's a phenotype. Adapt.



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14 Aug 2007, 3:05 am

Griff wrote:
However, this wouldn't be a problem in the case that we are referring to. As these guys grew in age, they would also grow to see one another as equals. This would have the effect of tripping the switch that you're referring to. This relational transformation happens quite a lot. It happened in my case, although I was playing the role of the nurturer.


That doesn't happen to everybody though. For instance, I have a lot of people I see as big brothers because of it. Since I don't exactly get along with most females, I have a lot of male friends, and every single one of them that I formed any bond with at all instantly became big brothers to me. My bf helps me out a LOT with things, and I often find myself feeling very awkward doing much with him because he helps out so much, and I've had to tell him to stop helping me because it was just too weird.

Most of the guys who watched over me wound up becoming more protective of me, same with any girls I know who looked over guys as their "little bros" or whatnot.

Implementing kiddos having relationships like that where they look out for each other, somehow I think would decrease the chances of ever winding up with each other because of that bond. How old are you talking about anyway? Just to get a better idea of where the logic on this part is coming from. (no offense meant)


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