Am I disrespectful / bad person for wanting a 2nd opinion?

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starkid
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15 Oct 2020, 4:47 pm

Double Retired wrote:
Oh, and there is a fringe benefit: WP!

There is no diagnosis required to participate on WP.



Double Retired
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15 Oct 2020, 6:46 pm

starkid wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
Oh, and there is a fringe benefit: WP!

There is no diagnosis required to participate on WP.

True. But a diagnosis can lead someone to WP.

What is the collective noun for autistics?


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cyberdad
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15 Oct 2020, 7:10 pm

starkid wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
Oh, and there is a fringe benefit: WP!

There is no diagnosis required to participate on WP.


Amen to that sister!



Dvdz
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15 Oct 2020, 7:27 pm

One of the criteria for an ASD diagnosis in the DSM-5 is that:

D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.

For example, if 31yr old males usually have 10 friends but you only have 1, that is a clinically significant impairment for criteria A-3:

Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

It sounds like you might not have or didn't communicate a clinically significant impairment for one or more of the criteria required for an ASD diagnosis.

But that doesn't mean you aren't autistic. You can be autistic and not have an ASD diagnosis. For example, in your case, you might have learnt enough social skills to make 10 friends, which makes you not qualify for an ASD diagnosis now, but would have if you had went for an evaluation before you made 10 friends.

If you go for a second opinion, be clear about whether you want an ASD diagnosis or whether you want to know if you are autistic. And also hope that your psychologist knows the difference.

P.S 10 friends is just a number I pulled out of my ass.



rowan_nichol
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16 Oct 2020, 12:04 pm

Thank you for for joining Wrong Planet and sharing your story so far with us.

Your circumstances are more common than you might think and illustrate how much of a judgement call adult diagnosis can be.

I think it quite possible from what you write and the extracts from your report that your profile is Autistic, and we have probably both scored over the threshold on the tools intended to identify the autistic profile. As a previous poster has observed, the assessor may have made a judgement call on section D of the criteria and concluded there is not enough significant disabling effects of that profile on your life.

I think it possible a second opinion may make a different t judgement call for section D, though nothing is guaranteed, but information I would think is significant to help a second opinion make that decision with respect under section D might be these :
That you have had lifelong effects from your Autistic profile in the form of anxiety and depression, and that these have been present fairly continuously.

Your existing report concedes that you are using your intelligence and intellect and other skill to navigate the social side of your adult life. The report even uses some words about your efforts resulting in your autistic traits being masked.

It appears possible that it has had a serious impact on your employment because you have had an episode of mental ill health serious enough for your employer's occupational health advisers to be involved, and for some assistance measures to be offered by your employer through their employee assistance programme.

Your autistic profile may be disabling but in a hidden way as the extra effort you make to navigate the social areas of employment by conscious effort means you are spending extra energy which your colleagues with the typical neurology do not have to expend. This means that you are put at a disadvantage by it.

Criterion C is important. Your childhood memories show that it is lifelong, and your experience of a burnout / breakdown in work comes under C with that phrase "...but may not become apparent until the social demands exceed the ability to cope" which may well be what had happened, at which point the possibility was identified in the counselling sessions.

This last point is also a defence against any unkind accusation about faking, wasting time, confirmation bias or otherwise in that the first suspicion came not from your forming an idea of the possibility and cherry picking information to support it, but was raised as a possibility by another person in the course of a counselling process and the other person was, to borrow from our wiring regulations book, a Competent person, a skilled or instructed person", who while not qualified to carry out a formal diagnosis, had enough information from the training or continuing professional development, to be identify possibilities of the Autism spectrum and use screening tools.

May I also point you in the direction of www.asiam.ie which is Ireland's autistic led autism association. I have always been impressed with the cohort of asiam.ie members who have travelled over to Autscape each year.

I also think it possible that there is still an unfortunate link in peoples minds with Autism and Intellectual disability, even though research has shown that the autistic profile can accompany any level of intellectual ability. There is in Ireland a consultant Anaesthetist who has been formally diagnosed, and who has produced important research papers which have influenced, amongst others, The Royal College of Psychiatrists with respect to Autism and adults.



Hokcone1
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16 Oct 2020, 1:55 pm

Thank you @rowan_nichol and @Dvdz. I think you are both correct on the application of the DSM-5 impairment criteria in my case, I'm pretty certain DSM-5 was used in my case.

@rowan_nichol - special thanks to you, that is a really detailed and comprehensive explanation and application to the points I presented, that took you a lot of time, I really appreciate it.

I've thought about it and I suppose the whole "grey area" and subjective judgment in diagnosis is the fundamental problem. I have these attributes which looking back on this and the feedback would clearly indicate a diagnosis one way but thankfully I'm lucky enough to have attributes that allow me to appear "normal".

I suppose that there is a trio of interrelated problems being:

(I) with the diagnostic tools available that there cannot be a clear objective accepted "yes or no" as to whether somebody has ASD;

(II) there isn't a general acceptance in the general population that, due to this subjectivity, somebody can be autistic albeit without the clinical diagnosis of ASD but that label doesn't define that; and

(III) I have my own difficulties with the preceding two issues and whether I have to pick a side so to speak. Do I seek the second opinion and see if I get a diagnosis which would validate my identity to the world and sort out issue (II) or do I identify as I believe I am to be autistic based on what I know, the report and professional feedback and my experiences but in recognition that I dont get the clinical label in acceptance of the subjectivity and the compensated impairment model of DSM-5 that is issue (I) but therefore leave myself open to derision by having to qualify my identity without a clincial diagnosis to anyone I may choose to let in on this aspect of my life (so far only a few very close friends and family know anything about any of this).

This whole thread has really clarified my thinking on the issues here I think, I've never before been able to succinctly put the above together in mind or in text before, thanks so much.

Edit - Also, everyone here has been really welcoming and I really like that you don't need to have a diagnosis to be here or be accepted here, I joined WrongPlanet after I received the report from the assessor as it was one of the recommmended links in their report. I didn't feel like I could post here without a diagnosis without being a "fraud" at the time but only when this ate away at me for such a long time did I finally properly look around here and decided to do it and I'm really glad I did. :D


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rowan_nichol
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17 Oct 2020, 5:24 pm

Thank you for your feedback and your kind PM.

A final thought, perhaps for discussion during assessment if you decide to seek a second opinion, or in any counseling session :- would you be able to identify all the informal supports which you might have in place without realising?
In my case that list probably includes the path I took through my education where I avoided probably quite a bit of the more awkward social stuff, passionate interests (electronics) which I could turn into focused third level study and subsequently employment, and employment in a field and firm where there were probably enough people on the borders of the Autistic Spectrum that I did not stand out too badly, employment which brought in enough income to live in a one person household, giving space to re-charge, and private space and time to Be autistic in ways I looked after my sensory needs, and then to ask what might happen if any of those informal supports were taken away. Those of us advised in assessments that we may not receive a formal medical diagnosis at level one (needs support) because there did not seem to be enough evidence of us being seriously effected by our Autistic profiles were in face at Level 1 And the necessary supports were more or less in place informally, or the support was self funded by the extra energy we spend doing social stuff by intelligence, pattern spotting, scripting or avoiding, and if that energy ran out or employment circumstances changed, our profiles could result in us crashing out into quite significant difficulties.



Jakki
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17 Oct 2020, 5:41 pm

Seems you might get a second opinion privately , just to get a good idea of what your real diagnosis should be .
But if you do not have it publicly you opportunities for your future maybe a bit more open for you .
Especially if you are well set, where you are at currently . And it does sound as if they already make allowances
For you as you are . :D


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Double Retired
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17 Oct 2020, 7:12 pm

Jakki makes a good point. Just because you know the diagnosis doesn't mean anyone else needs to know. (But I think a few folk on WP would be interested!)

If you get the diagnosis, though, you might want to share it with your doctors--and I mean the ones like your primary care physician. (See https://aaspire.org and https://autismandhealth.org--but don't go in with high hopes, so far I am having trouble getting my doctors to adjust how they communicate with me.)

Also, if you get the diagnosis you might choose to share it with any significant other or any other immediate family. Your posts suggest they would be supportive. And I think it's kind of fun when my autism shows to explain "I have a doctor's note for that!" :)


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Pepe
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17 Oct 2020, 9:04 pm

Hokcone1 wrote:
TLDR: Went for ASD assessment, told I have the traits but not full criteria due to high IQ and success at masking - Am I a bad person for wanting to get a second opinion or should I just count myself lucky that I'm in a fortunate position?


I'm confused about why you even need to ask, and why you feel guilty. :?
If it has been on your mind, and if you can afford the assessment, just do it.
I really don't see the problem. :scratch:

I'm a rational aspie.
Aspies tend to be.
What you are saying doesn't sound particularly rational to me. 8O

"Please explain." ;)