If you had the chance to cure you're Autism would you?

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I WOULD IN A HEARTBEAT

I know you're right but it's just hard for me to see it. It's not even about the money for me. Most of the men on my mother's side of the family went to university, partied hard and now they're all mechanical engineers. I just view uni as a right of passage, in which one learns a skill such as engineering in the classroom and how to culturally be an adult outside of the classroom.

If I was a doctor or an engineer or whatever, I'd be in it for the prestige more than the money. I just hate people looking down on me. Some of them don't look down on me but I just think they do. Some of them really do look down on me but for other reasons. If I was a doctor or an engineer or whatever, I'd probably find some other thing to complain about. No one is ever satisfied. The grass is always greener on the other side. I'm no exception to that rule.

While I know guys like my various maternal uncles, cousins, etc who have successful careers in their field of study, I also know people who study seemingly random stuff in the vain hope that it will make them more employable. Maybe it will but probably not in their field of study. I know several girls with art degrees. Then again I've also heard the notion that any degree is proof the bearer can work hard, persevere and self-organize.

My employers have recently been recruiting from "STEM students" with little regard for their field of study. One of the new recruits has a PhD in biology but that's not our field of business. I may be wrong but this notion reinforces the idea that a university degree is a right of passage and a conspicuous mark of achievement rather than a direct path to a specific career.

I think it's different in America. I've spoken to Americans on various different forums. I spoke to a girl who was doing a Bachelor of Russian. I pointed out this wouldn't lead to a career and she said it didn't matter because she wasn't going to pick a career field until she did her post-grad studies. She said her undergrad years were only for testing the waters.

The confused me to no end. Why would she spend four years and $50,000 to get a bachelor degree before she started a degree related to her career. It means she won't be finished until her late twenties and doubles her debt.

I think the reason may be because in America certain types of study are only available as post-grad. For example, in Australia you can study law straight out of high school (though few get accepted) but in America law must be done post-grad (and your undergrad doesn't even have to be in a field related to law). Again this is done to prove that would-be law students can work hard, persevere and self-organize.

It just seems like a very slow way to prove yourself. It shortens your career. In Australia, to study law all you need is high school grades in the 93rd percentile for eligible subjects. Being in the 93rd percentile alone is considered proof enough you have the necessary qualities.

Another debate I had on a web forum. American engineering student had a requirement for a certain number of units in the humanities. I argued that this was wasting his time and money and he said something snobbish about the importance of a "broad education" and said the fact that I wanted to study only subjects relevant to my career was proof I'm not "college material". I felt like I was talking to some Ivy League millionaire from about 1910.

Australia has a large network of technical schools known as TAFE. Among other things they teach IT. They have a good reputation among IT students because, according to people I've spoken to they teach the practical side of programming. I spoke to a guy with a degree in software engineering and he said too much time was spent on theory, as compared with TAFE.

I did a quarter of a diploma there last year but I found it too stressful to study while I was working 5 days per week. I didn't mind taking classes after work but spending all my time at home on assignments was the thing that stressed me. Too things convinced me to drop out. One was a lady at work who told me programming skills weren't needed for my position and one was when I found out my manager had the same diploma and he had to fight very hard to get a management position because he had a TAFE diploma rather than a university degree. This made me thing if I completed the diploma it would do little to improve my reputation among HR.

I know you're right but it's just hard for me to see it. It's not even about the money for me. Most of the men on my mother's side of the family went to university, partied hard and now they're all mechanical engineers. I just view uni as a right of passage, in which one learns a skill such as engineering in the classroom and how to culturally be an adult outside of the classroom.

If I was a doctor or an engineer or whatever, I'd be in it for the prestige more than the money. I just hate people looking down on me. Some of them don't look down on me but I just think they do. Some of them really do look down on me but for other reasons. If I was a doctor or an engineer or whatever, I'd probably find some other thing to complain about. No one is ever satisfied. The grass is always greener on the other side. I'm no exception to that rule.

While I know guys like my various maternal uncles, cousins, etc who have successful careers in their field of study, I also know people who study seemingly random stuff in the vain hope that it will make them more employable. Maybe it will but probably not in their field of study. I know several girls with art degrees. Then again I've also heard the notion that any degree is proof the bearer can work hard, persevere and self-organize.

My employers have recently been recruiting from "STEM students" with little regard for their field of study. One of the new recruits has a PhD in biology but that's not our field of business. I may be wrong but this notion reinforces the idea that a university degree is a right of passage and a conspicuous mark of achievement rather than a direct path to a specific career.

I think it's different in America. I've spoken to Americans on various different forums. I spoke to a girl who was doing a Bachelor of Russian. I pointed out this wouldn't lead to a career and she said it didn't matter because she wasn't going to pick a career field until she did her post-grad studies. She said her undergrad years were only for testing the waters.

The confused me to no end. Why would she spend four years and $50,000 to get a bachelor degree before she started a degree related to her career. It means she won't be finished until her late twenties and doubles her debt.

I think the reason may be because in America certain types of study are only available as post-grad. For example, in Australia you can study law straight out of high school (though few get accepted) but in America law must be done post-grad (and your undergrad doesn't even have to be in a field related to law). Again this is done to prove that would-be law students can work hard, persevere and self-organize.

It just seems like a very slow way to prove yourself. It shortens your career. In Australia, to study law all you need is high school grades in the 93rd percentile for eligible subjects. Being in the 93rd percentile alone is considered proof enough you have the necessary qualities.

Another debate I had on a web forum. American engineering student had a requirement for a certain number of units in the humanities. I argued that this was wasting his time and money and he said something snobbish about the importance of a "broad education" and said the fact that I wanted to study only subjects relevant to my career was proof I'm not "college material". I felt like I was talking to some Ivy League millionaire from about 1910.

Australia has a large network of technical schools known as TAFE. Among other things they teach IT. They have a good reputation among IT students because, according to people I've spoken to they teach the practical side of programming. I spoke to a guy with a degree in software engineering and he said too much time was spent on theory, as compared with TAFE.

I did a quarter of a diploma there last year but I found it too stressful to study while I was working 5 days per week. I didn't mind taking classes after work but spending all my time at home on assignments was the thing that stressed me. Too things convinced me to drop out. One was a lady at work who told me programming skills weren't needed for my position and one was when I found out my manager had the same diploma and he had to fight very hard to get a management position because he had a TAFE diploma rather than a university degree. This made me thing if I completed the diploma it would do little to improve my reputation among HR.

No I would not. While there are many negatives there are also things about me I enjoy that would probably change if I was cured.

What are all these positives they keep talking about?!?!

Visual thinking? I have been suffering from aphantasia since I was 8! There are a minority of autistic spectrum people who can picture things visually. But me? I am neither a natural visual or verbal thinker, I have trouble even thinking. It strains my brain to even think consciously.

Good memory? Rote, yes, but what about practical?

Logical thinking? The world is built on paradoxes and difficult gray situations. A person can go mad when the correlate the contents or whatever like that Cthulhu quote. If we reduce everything to cause and effect, mathmatic and atomistic principles nihilism sets it for me! That good deal of irrationality is what allows humankind to have pleasure and survive! I don't want see only the trees and not the forest! The forest being an abstract concept may not make it physically real, merely a human concept for something made up of several trees, but I don't want to see the entire world that way like I do now! It hurts! Every day I have numerous intrusive thoughts that won't stop, and many sensory issues. The world feels fake, like a computer game to me. I have not felt really like I existed since I was 8!

There is a really good reason why neurotypical people are the way they are, it may not be logical or deep and meaningful but it allows them to continue existing and reproducing.

I think everyone is different. For me the positives can sometimes brighten an otherwise bad day. I do go through times where even the positives don't help, especially days with significant amounts of socialization.

What are they?!?!

I know, right?

Hi jhonnyh. You and many others have asked for examples of the positives. I can't speak for anyone else, but here are some personal examples:

Hypersensitivity when not totally overwhelming me:

Audio: its pretty neat hearing sounds others don't notice then having them react with surprise when they can hear it too after its pointed out to them

Olfactory: My sense of smell is acute enough I can actually tell when my wife's period is coming days in advance by the change in her body odor. Jokes aside (early warning system!), its pretty cool when she comes up to me when her period is later than usual and very seriously asks "is my period coming?", and has me smell her neck to find out when she is late.

Imagination/creativity: when its not creating myriad reasons to be paranoid

Given a quite place to think I can rapidly come up with many different extrapolations/future scenarios based on a given set of facts or assumptions. Once I go through a process of discarding the 'bad ones' (the ones imo less likely be useful) I am left with a set of scenarios that range from 'solid but NT' to 'surprisingly plausible, but out of the box'. I have had many clients/co-workers tell me how useful and insightful the ideas are.

I can also extrapolate backwards, and am often able to spot b.s. given the time to focus on it. My business coach calls it a 6th sense for b.s.

My imagination lends itself well to self entertainment. When I was in elementary school and bored with the lesson being taught my desk became a mothership and my pencils became fighters zooming around the outside of it.

My obsession/fascination with physics and astronomy and science in general which already provides me with endless enjoyment led me to science fiction which provided countless more hours of enjoyment reading book after book.

Authors like asimov, bradbury, frank herbert etc etc as a child and brin, bear, gibson, asher, reynolds, hamilton, banks and pratchett and so on as an adult became my 'best friends'.

Of course the negatives suck. I spend 99% of my time alone to avoid social or sensory overwhelm and need long periods of recovery when spending time with anyone other than my wife. I can rarely handle socially interacting with more than 2 or 3 people at time even on a good day. I even struggle interacting with my kids.

Being unable to express emotions the way others do, the meltdowns, sensory overload, insomnia, anxiety, isolation, difficulty understanding people (please say what you mean and mean what you say!! !) And having them not understand me (stop reading between my lines!! !) etc. etc. etc. all suck and can make life hell.

But I still love being me, I love my unique way of thinking, I celebrate my difference. I take joy from the bonuses.

Being like this can seem more kryptonite than superpower, but for me at least there is still enough superpower to be proud of who I am.

I wouldn't, i feel like its a part of my personality and who i am as a person, so id never get rid of something that makes me so unique and individual, something that gives me such a unique and special perspective on the world

How are these practical?



These are not exclusive to Autistic people. Please don't confuse also being a little professor with being talented. Many NT people with these positive attributes may express it yet you do not notice it due to your Aspergers. They may express it in less overt ways, possibly more conventionally too.



Exactly, there is someone out there with your talents and none of the negatives.



Like I said above, you could have an awesome life being able to bond even better with those around you and not have to find ways to compensate for your negatives. I am always told "make a schedule if your executive function sucks". But I feel entitled as a human being, as if it were a human right, to not having it harder than anyone else doing the same things.

People point out successful people on the spectrum like Temple Grandin. Hmmmm, considering her families wealth, her supportive mother, and the fact she is incredibly talented, yet she could still be talented in were she NT (a lot of NT people can switch from verbal to visual thinking instead of being stuck on one), are what many of us aren't fortunate enough to have.

I honestly feel entitled to another life being NT, its only fair after living so long and suffering so much. I want a "good" life. Wouldn't someone who grew up starving and and still hungry to the end of their life not be entitled to the same thought? Don't say "there is someone who has it worse" because you would also have to say "there is someone who has it better".

I didn't say it was practical. Just that, for me personally, I consider it a positive.

Practical applications of the hypersensitivity: I am a pretty good salesman over the phone if I use headphones to block all external noise. I can hear the little things other salesmen miss, like the moment when a potential buyer takes that inward breath to voice a concern (its louder than a regular breath). That's my clue to close the sales pitch book and open the customer concern one. By the time the customer finishes voicing their concern, I am ready to answer. Those few seconds of difference mean that I seem more prepared and confident. And that perception of confidence often influences the sale. Ironically the social awkwardness helps here as well, because I have to script everything where an NT salesmen wouldn't. That feeds into the perception of preparedness and confidence also.





You are right. There are others who don't have Autism who have many of the intellectual traits I described. I personally know some who are far smarter than I.

But I have enjoyed my time with my books immensely. They never let me down. They never betray my trust. They make no demands of me. They have no expectations. I wonder, would I get as much pleasure from reading if I didn't need a safe place to go to so much?

I also know that my unique way of seeing the world, and the experiences I have had, including autism, diirectly impacts the unique perspectives I have and the unique solutions I come up with.

As for the reading, I probably wouldn't have read anywhere near as much if I didn't struggle socially. While I still may have read quite a bit without the autism, I doubt I would have as large a body of knowledge as I gained in my little professor hobbies and exposure to as large a quantity of the creativity found in the fiction I have read. This too directly impacts the insights my clients value.

If a cure stripped away all of the things that make up autism from me, could it be guaranteed that my unique world view would remain? I am who I am because of the way my mind works. I wouldn't trade 1 part of it if it meant losing my perspective.

I understand your experience is very different than mine. I can only speak to my experience. It seems like you want answers that might directy relate to your personal experience. I don't know if I am qualified to do that. I feel like maybe I let you down a bit here. I am sorry.





With my talents, but probably not my perspective. Autism is an integral part of my perspective. Change the perspective and you change the set of solutions you can see to any given problem.

Would I still be the same person with the same perspectives if the autism was removed. I don't think so, but I admit I could be wrong,





I hear you. I can't deny I have felt that way at times.

But I don't think it works that way even for NT's. If I wanted a body like Duane Johnson I would probably have to work out a lot harder than he did to achieve the same goal even if my autism were removed.

Not everyone could be as funny as Robin Williams or Richard Pryor. If you have 2 otherwise equal people, but one excels at learning where the other doesn't the one who doesn't will probably have to study harder to get the same grades. I freely admit, it is a lot harder with autism than it seems to be without it though.

I guess the point I am making is that for me personally I wouldn't trade even the bad days. Over the years I have come to like who I am quite a bit and I just wouldn't want to risk losing too much of who I am by eliminating something that gives me such a unique perspective.

Maybe I am crazy for saying that. I don't know.

Your experience is probably different from mine, and you obviously feel differently. My choice to pass on the cure does not make your choice to take the cure less right for you.

Yeah, and this is an important thing to note: what's positive for one aspie might be of little use for another. Perspective is also important. You consider some of your sensory things to be a positive for example, while I am pretty blase about mine and don't feel strongly about them.



I'm with you on this one, actually. I've noticed this in public speaking; I have to prepare, and that gives me a chance to really nail it. I see it at work, too... my interactions with customers are smooth, effective and get positive reactions... because I have to put more thought into them.



... and that's totally fine. You've gotta do you. For me though, I'd give up everything autism's giving me without a second thought. I still have the experiences of having it, but I'm thinking about how it will affect my future and not how it has impacted my past. This is something a lot of people lose sight of in threads like this.



This is a deep philosophical question. What makes you you?

I feel that in my case, without autism I'd be the man I've long felt a deep want and need to be. Is that the same man I am right now? In some ways... and those are the ways that matter to me. Other things might be different, but I consider the things I'd be likely to lose of little value.

You clearly feel differently, and I cannot fault you for that.



While I agree with you on a lot of things, this feels like an unhealthy way to look at it. It does little good to feel entitled to something impossible to have. That will lead to misery, you're setting yourself up for it. I can certainly relate to feeling that way, but it was too damn depressing and I shifted to “how I can I make the best of this situation?

Good point.

In my case after 40+ years being me I have at least as much of my life behind me as I do ahead. To get this far I had to develop a fierce love of who I am. Challenges, eccentricities and all.

I am also quite set in my ways. So it is quite hard for me to even imagine being different than I am.

However, if a cure would mean I become the best version of me I suppose I would have to consider it carefully before rejecting it.

I can certainly understand that.

Yeah, for me I do feel like not having autism would make me "the best version of me". A lot of this comes down to my personality, needs and what I want out of life. Those things are different for everyone; there's not a one-size-fits-all answer to the "would you cure it" question.

I'm the ultimate minority - Gay, Black, Autistic, Atheist, Jain, Immigrant, Homeless. The "opposite" of me would be the "normal" person - Straight, White, NT, God fearing, Christian, American born, domiciled in the suburbs.

Now it begs the philosophical question - who has the better life, me or suburban guy? Who is happier?

Don't suburban guys lose their jobs, get their houses burglarized, lose their children in car or drug accidents, contemplate and/or commit suicide, become alcoholics, have to register and insure their car which sometimes costs them time away from their family, get divorced, put up with bosses they'd rather burn in a cauldron, have a spouse that cheats on him when he's toiling away at work, targeted by angry protesting minorities in the street, mugging victims, have to wake up every day and put up with the rat race to keep on making those paychecks to pay off that 30 year mortgage, deal with bill after bill in the mail?

I'm okay. I don't feel like I live in hell. Happiness, after all, is just a state of mind, a perspective, if you will. I'm in good health, I get food stamps, food and clothes from food banks, shower at Green Lake, this morning somebody left two boxes of Granola Bars on my windshield when I was asleep in the car. The note on it said, "From A Friend." I'm in the mall writing this. They have internet access. I also get internet access in the many libraries around town.

The fact that I made it to 54 and I'm still writing and publishing books means I MUST'VE done something right, and I'm quite sure Autism had something to do with that, being that I think outside the box, am extremely focused, etc.