First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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I depend heavily upon use of visual metaphor when trying to translate mental image or feeling to verbal. This is about the only way I have to explain many times. Is this not an Aspie trait? Would Aspies or Auties tend to have problems following my meaning when I do this?

Can you give an example, please?

A question for the NTs
How do you know when an acquaitence becomes a friend? I don't know if it's been asked already but it's a question that I've wanted to know the answer to for centuries.

I want to know too!!

That's a tough one because there is no precise tipping point. It's a spectrum. The closest I can come to an answer is there has to be an accumulation of shared enjoyable experiences. These might be going somewhere or just talking. As these expereinces accumulate, the person moves slowly along the spectrum from acquaintance>>>>>>>>>friend. I can't give you a number for how many shared experiences there must be.

Thanks, I shall be looking out for those shared experiences. maybe I could keep a mental note of them as they add up, if I can't work it out using mind reading powers I may aswell do it systematically.

To be honest, I don't concern myself about that very much. I strive to be a friend to everyone, and let them respond how the will. A friendship to me is a mutual relationship where each member cares more about the other person than about himself. I'm not criticizing, I'm just explaining my point of view. If I am concerned about whether XYZ person is my friend, I am thinking about me not them. On the other hand I do need to be cautious of people who would take advantage of that. This is where I have problems perceiving sometimes. I would like to believe that all people are as honest as I try to be, but some folks just aren't. But part of me still wonders if the most loving thing to do with people who want to take advantage of me is to take steps to protect myself, but still be their friend.

I have done this several times on this forum, but I can't recall at the moment where I stuck them. The most recent one, I think was where I explained my experience as feeling like I am a switching unit, whose interconnecting wiring was defective, so I depend more upon radio wave communication to feel connected to the outside world, and it seems like without the radio wave communication I would be totally cut off, though I wouldn't really be. It's just that the signals through the wiring are often undependable. Now if I could just recall the context where I put that analogy, it would be easier for you to judge.

I have often wondered this, too. I have experienced what appeared to be good friendships, only to have them end rather suddenly. Leaving me wondering what, if anything, I had done to end it. Asking netted me nothing, since the other person always assured me that it was them, and not myself, that was the problem. Since I hadn't experienced them as being the problem, this always left me in the dark. I have also had friendships end because the other person, also female, would tell me she was gay and that she was attracted to me. Since I wasn't gay, and they didn't think just my friendship was enough, that had to end, as well.

Hmmm .... while I consider myself more NT than AS (some AS traits but not really AS) my answer would be that you don't "know." Why do you think everyone has so much trouble with guest lists for weddings? Not everyone has the same standards for friendships; even in the NT world, there is a spectrum of sorts. The only important thing is to understand what the other person's standard is, and decide where you fit or don't fit into it. Some people expect to have lunch every week, talk on the phone daily, and regularly host each other for dinners and social events. Others are fine going months without any contact, just knowing that when they do get together, it will feel as if no time at all has passed. And most people have some friends in any of the above arrangements.

I think the key thing is feeling that the other person accepts you as you are, understands you, and will be there for you if you ever need them. That is a true friend.

When you fail to be there for someone who needs you, then you are not a true friend. You either must apologize or allow the friendship to drift. Sometimes, even if you do apologize, they can't get over it. I had that once, and it just was what it was. A friend was going through an emotional crisis and moved in with me, in the studio condo I had at the time. After a few days I realized that I wasn't bringing her up; instead, I was tumbling into emotional crisis myself. I explained to her as carefully as I could, and told her that for my own emotional health I needed her to move out. She felt I had failed her and never forgave me. Well, I HAD failed her, but it was necessary, so it just was what it was. I still regret that it went the way it did, but I also know there is nothing I could have done differently. If you aren't able to use effective lifesaving techniques, and you try to rescue a drowning swimmer, you will both drown. That was the situation there.

Unfortunately, knowing what a particular person wants from a particular friendship involves a lot of non-verbal cues and, well, guess work. If you make calls and invitations that are too frequent for their taste, they'll feel you are too "needy" and not want to pursue the friendship. If you never call or invite them, they'll feel you aren't interested in pursuing the friendship. For me, I've learned to never assume that someone does not want any friendship at any level; most likely, they just need to keep it lower key. My husband has several friends from his college days that we rarely see. He tends to jump to the conclusion that they just don't want to see us. But when I contact them for a special event, the enthusiasm at hearing from us is always genuine. They may or may not end up making it, but that they still care about my husband is evident. To me (not to him, unfortunately; AS insecurity, I guess).

I remember years ago a friend that started down the "we have to get together soon" route but never suggested anything specific. It quickly became a chuckle between her other friends and me; she was doing it to all of us. In that rare case, someone actually verbalized what we were all thinking: she cares about us enough to hope we are doing well and to be happy to run into us, but doesn't care enough to take the time to hang out with us." A friend on the way to becoming an acquaintance, I guess. But, you know, there isn't anything wrong with that. People go through different phases in life, and their friendship needs are different at each turn. Sometimes you fit that need, sometimes you don't. There is nothing wrong with staying in really light touch until such time, if ever, the pendulum swings again. I do that with all sorts of people; the Christmas card friends, my husband calls them (and now, in the age of Facebook, many are Facebook friends).

So ... there is a ramble that may or may not answer anything. It isn't a simple question.

Before I knew about AS, no. Now that I've read every book about AS I can get my hands on and gone to some heavy marriage counseling with my aspie husband, yes.

But, as an NT wife to an aspie husband, I'm in a state of hypervigilance now, because I have this new job in my life as sort of an "emotional seeing eye dog" for my much loved guy (something he has actively sought from me due to him having such a hard time in the world before we got married). So, I'm "on" most of the time. I think you will find that there are a lot of NT relatives and friends who are actually shocked when the AS diagnosis comes in. HFA is generally synonymous with "nerd" or "geek" and there are tons of nerds and geeks in the NT ranks, so we just figure you're too busy being brilliant to bother with "innane social graces", which is usually just shrugged off by the uninitiated NT.

About this thread and poll: I, like most of the NT members here, have a lot of guidance work to do all day long for my aspie loved one (And I marvel at NTs like DW_a_mom, who has 2 aspie relatives to be there for! And then she also comes on here and moderates! Hats off, DW!). But I consider it an honor to be among the small percentage of WP members who are NT, to be among those few NTs priveleged to be a part of this community trying to help aspies, as they help me, have some mutual insight. That opportunity, made possible by this mixed community at WrongPlanet.net, makes the day-to-day assistance that I give to just one, my husband, available to all aspies who read threads like this. Even my husband could come on here and find important advice, written by folks like DW, to either supplement or reinforce the guidance I'm giving him, which would make my "job" that much easier! So, I think of this potential resource as sort of a "brain trust", a place to archive tips and concepts about the social world most aspies have so much trouble with. And I think it deserves its very own subforum out on the main directory (I vote for it to be called, "Ask an NT" and I vote that there should be a sister subforum entitled, "Ask an Aspie"). Please, please, please consider doing that! It harms no-one to do it (except maybe those who insist the NT world sucks and are choosing to stay angry about it), it would take a staff member only a few minutes to set up, and it couldn't help but make a huge difference for EVERYONE living with AS who's looking for answers. A total win/win idea!

It's a relief to post here, not a burden, so thank you, OP.

And this thread is the first time in history that such a thing as an interactive, open, non-judgemental, on-going dialogue exists between NTs and Aspies, real life or online. It was my idea, however it's you NTs and Aspies that made the dream come true with your magnificent contributions, and for that I'm eternally grateful.

Another unique experience, which Feyhera just pointed out, is that this thread gives a much-needed chance to NTs supporting their beloved, to compare notes on how to extend that support in the best way possible for all involved.

Thank you for all your contributions on this thread Janissy, but especially for this one and for the one about how to identify who is important socially at work. I give myself a "don't know if I have it" profile, but when I realise that these examples are all a complete revelation to me whereas this stuff is second nature to most people by the time they reach the age of my daughters (early teens) I think maybe I'm in the right place here at WP!

My question is this. What do people do when they have been getting on with someone for a little while and can reasonably say they are friends (quite a few shared experiences etc) so as to keep that friendship going and not just have it wither away?

Treat your friendship like a plant and it won't wither away. What makes plants wither away? Not enough water! So "water" your friendship periodically with phone calls or emails. Call or email if something interesting has happened in your life that your friend might like to hear about ("might" is good enough, don't wait for something groundbreaking before contacting them). Call or email periodically to ask them how they are doing.

If this is somebody you see in person, say "how was your weekend?" if it is Monday. Say "how was your week?" if it is Friday or the weekend". If it is mid-week, say "how is your week going so far?"

Frindships, like plants, need watering, but how much? Desert plants need only a little water. Marsh plants need lots. How do you know what kind of "plant" your friendship is and how much "water" you should give it (in the form of email, phone or chit-chat contact?) Estimate this by looking over your history so far with this person. How much time went by between those shared experiences that formed your bond of friendship? Did you go a month or two between those contacts (Desert plant friendship) or did he call you every few days just to say "what's up?" (Marsh plant friendship) Maintain a level of "watering" that is consistent with what you did with each other as you became friends.

Janissy, I hope you're keeping the questions and your answers in a file, because they'll be an invaluable read for your daughter as she starts facing these issues. Who knows, all this may turn into a book!