just a word of advice

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Yet funnily enough, they seem to have a higher rate of success in life than we do. I know plenty of people who are less intelligent than me, less hardworking than me, and drunken idiots. Somehow, they manage to survive and support themselves. As things are now, I couldn't live independently. They must be doing something right that I'm not doing, despite their "inferior" approach to life.

People who use a lot of logic in their decisions have a hard time seeing themselves as equal to someone who uses their feelings. In addition, people who spend years working a special interest of lets say, geometry, will consider themselves easily superior on the subject than most people, and rightly so. People who constantly score in the top 90th percentile will probably feel they are smarter than 90% of the population. People who also do the right thing will also tend to have a sense of sitting on that high horse for a while, which isn't exactly the right thing to do right? I'm just saying it's not right to feel superior to other people, but I can understand why some people would fall victim to that mentality as I have done many times in the past, but I never thought I was better because I was Aspie, and I never thought I was better than just NTs, no I thought I was better than everyone else, and Aspergers wasn't a word yet in my vocabulary. No worries though. The US Military cured me of that quick.

Edit to add... the us vs them mentality can't really be avoided sometimes. I spent many years where the world alienated me, and after spending all that time in a world you don't belong in, and then discover that you are really just a cat in a dog eat dog world, you can't help but to notice cats and dogs all the sudden and make some conclusions on the two different groups. I didn't chose to be different, and I don't choose to be considered different. The world chose that for me.

I don't think or feel that one population is better than the other population. My opinion is that people with AS and NTs are equal to, but different from each other.

For those of us who sit somewhere in the middle of AS and NT (I think willmark coined the phrase "natspie"), it's really hard to understand an "us vs. them" mentality. We'd be beating ourselves up.

While it's easy to dwell on differences, those with AS have a tendency to forget that they actually have more in common with someone NT than they realize.

This thread makes my heart glad

I really hope WP staff is taking note of the general call for tolerance and equality here...

Refreshing!

Thanks for starting this thread, pat2rome.

I agree with silver AS has only made me not social and have a few little quirks but I think I am so different to a lot of aspies on this forum because I went out there ya know I am someone not really scared o anything except spiders and socialising a bit

As someone mildly aspie and multiply disabled being almost blind and all, it really makes my blood boil because the visually impaired world is so quiet and we just get on with it becaue we jusyt say we are VI and just get n with ife you know I say aspie is a gift of thinking outside the box but not an absolite gift however people like glider make me happy because they respect all

I don't know the why are NTs nasty thread made my blood boil because the sheer ignorance of sme people of the thread

In my experience you just got to jump off the horse and do stuff ya know

Normal doesn't exist. There is such a range of differences in people that you cannot call a group of people normal. NT doesn't actually mean normal. It means without another pervasive neurological condition ie. people without Autism, ADHD, Downs Syndrome, Bipolar etc.

I think the problem comes from people attributing characteristics to NT's that are not correct. Basically making wild generalizations. I think one of the most important things to point out is that not all NT's are good socially. The other generalization that annoys me is that aspies are all really smart. It's not actually a criteria for diagnosis. The whole superiority movement is based on this incorrect assumption.

No, decided to "throw off the shackles" of society BECAUSE we are not wired for it. And there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean we feel superior. It is choice, just like the one you made to be social. It is that exact mentality, the idea that everybody should strive to be social and be "normal" that seeds the venom you speak out against.

Yes but the whole relinquishing yourself o society itself is dangerous that is for a start having no friends, I find that quite sad I only have like 5 but they mean the wold to me and I met them all in the space of 5 years ago before that I just drifted fromplace to place literally,
If y relinquish society yo lose eventually all aspects of society and it can change yo to something else also think about it does it make you a person society has been around for milenia and will be for ever its darwinism.
Some people do feel superior because they are different and difference becomes odd but still it iss aloapparent infact in the lack for sanity becase of loss of identity

No friends
always doing one thing or another
not really many family

what else is there tostart thinking you are a god except you are not just chff who has cast aside everything that in a way defines humanity
Circles of influence are needed to define who we are may they be large or small
it relaxes us, inspires us

I am speaking of this from the aspct of a psychologist not an aspie because as of late there have been some rather ill posts that are just odd

I don't understand waht a chff is... And I don't see how any of this leads to thinking one is a god. Am I taking you too literally there, perhaps?

As far as circles of influence... I have none and desire none. I have my family, my wife and kids... That is enough, for me. There was a time when I was quite social and had a good sized circle of friends. In retrospect, I realize that I was pretending to be a different person that entire time, with hints of my true self peeking through from time to time. I was actually quite miserable. But all of that has fallen away and I feel I am better for it. Socializing does not relax or inspire me. It does the exact opposite.
Do I feel superior for this? Of course not, and I think it betrays a sense of superiority on the part those that would accuse me of such when they say such things. You way of life, if it makes you happy and does not harm others, is always superior to any other FOR YOU. I would say the same for my way of life. For you, it would be sad and miserable, I am sure. For me, it works.

I am superior to NTs....

And inferior. It depends who you are comparing me to.

I think that NT should only be used to say 'a person without neurological/physical conditions/disability' and not like a hate term. Practically all the people who bullied me were NT. The people who have helped me and loved me were NT. You can't stick them all in one big bubble, same as you can't compare two people with an ASD. It's just too varied.

That's a good idea! Lets all do that!!

I think people fit on a spectrum in general where autism exists as well as other disorders and normal exists too. But, that's just me. Anyway, I think NT is supposed to mean normal like a model of normal by society's definition. The name NT is short for Neurotypical, and that word would technically sound to mean what is neurologically typical to the human species which can also mean/evolve to normal by society's standards. I do see NT on here used a lot to mean either non AS, or people without a disorder, but I don't think it was intentionally meant for that as much as people's slang has carried it that far.

When I think about it, when I generalize people, I generalize the expectations of people or I'm just joking half the time based on the concept as opposed to the actual people. My sister, who is the opposite of me, when she generalizes people, she's really believing that's how they are, so she doesn't generalize often because she'd be wrong to. WhenI see these anti NT threads, it seems to me that they are often (not always) geared more toward attacking or being superior to a concept more so than the actual people. Kinda like saying, "I'm smarter than the average bear" as opposed to "I'm smarter than everybody." Also, kinda like saying, "Because I don't do certain things, I'm a better person than people who think it's okay to do those things" as opposed to "I'm better than everyone else because I'm Aspie." NT gets in there not because they don't have Aspergers but because that is the word we are using for what people believe is normal as opposed to normal people. Like we are well aware that you don't have to have Aspergers to be good at math or think logically, and that not all Aspergers are those things, but the Aspie that comes on here great at math and thinks logically and thanks Aspergers for giving them those attributes might say from their perspective that if it's normal to not be these things, then I'm better than normal because of my Aspergers.

Regardless of its origins, the widely accepted meaning of Neurotypical is not on the autistic spectrum or not possessing a neurological condition. The people expressing anti NT sentiments know this. So what they're talking about when they say they are better than NT's is that Autistic people are better than NT's. They also repeatedly make the specific claim that Autistics are smarter than NT's. This is clearly a grouping statement, not a statement about themselves.

This is all really pointless without citing specific examples. All that any of you are doing is saying "they said this about all of them." Show us some actually quotes of people saying Aspies are smarter than NT's, for example.

Here's a quote from a fairly recent thread on WP where there is no doubt as to what the poster means -

"Only way to ensure our survival is to separate from the neurotypicals. They have history of repressing different populations. Our genes is in battle with theirs, and our genes are winning because they are superior, while their genes are inferior."

Another quote from the same thread from a different person -

"I, for one, support Aspergian Superiority, but not SUPREMACY. I think we can think faster, process data better, adapt quicker, and function better amongst our own kind than humans ever would. But I don't believe we need to go out there and dominate them all."

(Note - this person believes that NT's are human and Autistics are something else, something much more superior). The thread is here - http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt94352.html

The OP also cites a quote where someone says that neurotypicals aren't worth knowing.

I assumed that everyone would have already read this sort of stuff. I haven't been on forums very long and I've come across a fair bit of it. The worst ones are the ones who actually write quite logically, yet they still say that Aspies are more intelligent than NT's.

I remember that thread you linked to. I am also familiar with where someone said NTs aren't worth knowing...

First off, most of the posts I read seem to approach NTs from a conceptual standpoint as opposed to actual people. I do pick and choose what I read, and I don't usually like to read things like Aspergia. I run into them and just see it as bitter Aspies complaining for a minute and move on. I'm not insulted by them. I'm not an NT by your definition, but I have a child who probably is (probably will also have some aspie tendancies because her older sister and mother are Aspie, but you know). I never once feel like someone was trying to say they are better than my kid or that my kid wasn't worth knowing. Same with my friends and my mother, etc. I think I'm not insulted because I just don't think they all really mean that. Equally, I don't get insulted when NT's say we are annoying or other things like that. I know they don't mean we are all always annoying, but that some of us can be very annoying at times, which is true for everyone at times, but usually they aren't trying to talk about annoying people but annoying aspies, so I don't get insulted. I do when people say autistic people are ret*d because that's obvious it was meant with hate. Those people aren't hurt reaching out for some understanding, or frustrated or what have you. They are just hateful people saying something just to be hateful. Although if Carlos Mencia said it, I'd probably laugh as long as he does his "Da da duh." LOL.

These complaints are not as black and white to me as some people claim they are because you are dealing with Aspies who don't always word things well. I think it's more important to look at intention and what people are intending to say as opposed to what they are actually saying. Some of these are actual hate with intended hate, and those need to be dealt with individually. But not all of these statements were intended with hatred toward a group of innocent people.

For instance, the post that said NT's aren't worth knowing I think really meant to say, SOME NTs aren't worth knowing. That post was more like, "I've had x amount of years with bad experiences and my conclusion is that you are better off not knowing some people." Of course I worded it nicer, but that's my take on it. I will often make the mistake when you are already talking about a subgroup/ adjectives, I will say something to sound like all, but I meant like all we were already talking about. For instance, that thread was really, Why do NT's turn nasty for no reason?" The context included reading a science fiction story, so it really was meant to be a conceptual question to mean more like why does anyone turn nasty. Then people started to talk about nasty people, so when someone else brings up NT's aren't worth knowing, I think he more or less meant Nasty People aren't worth knowing since that was the subject of the context.

I should also add that the majority of the posts before the thread went off topic onto this subject were that, not NTs are just that way, but all of us can be. When you see one post that says something awful, that doesn't mean everyone on here feels that way. I notice the generalization that WP members have a lot of hate and superiority problems when really those members are the minority. The majority respond to those hateful posts with, "I know where you are coming from, but I don't think it's an Aspie vs NT thing." Even on this thread, the majority will agree that they do not feel superior to others.

I remember back in my bitter days against society, the things that came out of my mouth. I think some people associated me to an evil like Hitler just based on what I said, which wasn't too accurate on how I really felt. I just did what many Aspies do, and that's go a little overboard with the anger, resentment, and dwelling on the injustice. After so many years of people alienating me, I really did, though, feel I was better than them and was superior and that's why they alienated me. Then I discover Aspergers and the military and learned otherwise. But not everyone got the military experience, so I just see them at that phase except that they know what AS is and they have a word they chose instead of society, and it's NT. Does it make it right? NO. In fact, if I could go back in time, I would sit by myself and correct myself everytime I said something stupid like that to save myself from future embarrassment. But would it help other Aspies if a moderator were to say, Shame on you, I deleted your post, keep the hate talk to yourself or you will be banned? No, I don't think so either. It goes back to how most people's advice is just stating the problem, which in no way enables a solution. At this point, I think we can create another forum to put that sort of thing (I have a poll to see if it's a good idea in the WP technical stuff whatever forum), but the main thing would be to kinda guide and ease people (Aspie and NT) during their rants to engage in constructive ranting rather than destructive ones.

I do remember chatting with a guy on here who was Pro Aspergia. A couple people on here and I talked to that person, and in 4 pages of posts, his attitude changed from superiority to an equality. That was much more productive than banning him for thinking he was superior to a group of people. But when we work that hard to do that, it would all be for not if people went on there screaming they were insulted by such hate speech because of his earlier posts. Some of these "I claim discrimination" posts sound more hateful than the post they are complaining about. It just adds to the destruction. Two wrongs don't make a right.

To all you who has a problem with the "superiority" posts, just state your opinion when you see those posts, and do it politely without hate or anger or judgement. It's one thing to tell someone they are wrong and another to explain that you were slightly or highly insulted by what they said. If you do that and they add fuel to the fire by calling you names or whatever, then bring it up to a mod specifically.