And with this, I may have just crucified myself on WP

Post Reply New Topic

Never said it was not a good comeback I said it was illogical. No idea what TOM mean.

Has for putting yourselves in other people shoes I don't think the lack of empathy is a aspie defining trait, what come to make it seem so is that often aspie have something they are more interested in then the feeling of other even if they are highly empathic. Also our hard time with reading the non-verbal make it hard to be empathic on the moment without a clear emotional sign or a description of the situation.

Well, doing that for 7 hours, ESPECIALLY HERE, might not be considered, ummm, NORMAL. I don't know if it is fair to say MOST. SOME would say your description fits ME. It DOESN'T! I certainly am not conceited. If some say I am a genius for this and that, etc.... I feel almost embarassed, though I shouldn't. Some things THEY say mean I have acheived great success are things *I* don't consider that special. ALSO, I have to remember all the thingss I CAN'T do well. OK, I ADMIT IT! I don't understand much of human society. I understand some ASPECTS better than most, but am FAR from perfect. I NEVER thought the world should revolve around me, though I have been SPECIFICALLY accused of that. Yesterday, I was given a seat that was WAY too narrow. I COMPLAINED. WHY!?!? NOT because I thought they should bend to my will, but because I felt everyone DESERVED a seat they paid for! I may not be light, but MANY are my weight or larger.

HEY, such people, as those expecting me to have that seat, ARE the problem, NT or NOT.

As for being clueless, I guess OST, myself included, ARE. BUT, again, I understand SOME aspects better than most.



It IS unfair to come to such a conclusion in one day. You may miss stuff and how much can you REALLY read in 7 hours? Did you get a random cross section or a piece of a period? Give it some more time.



Everyone realizes that we are not intelligent in EVERY area. Even the SMARTEST, that SEEM the smartest, are not very bright with social things, etc.... It is just part of the syndrome. AND, out of the 7 areas, FEW excel in more than 5 anyway. It is almost a given that those that are great in science are not that great in art and vice/versa and that those that really excel in either are not really great in social. That last observation is ESPECIALLY prominent with those with an ASD.



Yeah, you won't catch ME saying that. MOST don't. STILL, maybe they are talking about only the WORST aspects. Like my statement about you looking for 7 hours and developing an opinion, many can be short sighted.



AGAIN, I am not pushing that idea. Granted, SOME are, but MOST aren't!

[quote]The world should not and will not bend to fit your needs because you think it should. Reality check. Sure. we see things differently. And sure, there is a group of us. But you know why the world revolves around the majority? It's because the majority has say. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" or something like that. You know what? You may not understand the world and think its unfair. You know what else? The world does not give a damn. If your in this world as a minority your at a disadvantage inherently. If you don't like it, do something. Ranting on a forum is all nice and good but if you really care at all you might consider doing something else about it. A protest or rally, a fund raiser, a news article. If your just ranting on WP, your preaching to the choir.[/quote[

Will not? AGREED! SHOULD NOT!?!?!? YESTERDAY I was in PAIN because of the frequencies and volume on the PA, and the seat. OK, maybe the seat only affects ONE person, but that noise HURT EVERYONE! I was apparently the only one that noticed. what of the extra power, the material, etc... used for such garbage? And they want ME to pay more for my "carbon footprint"!?!? And what of all the hearing aids, etc? Did you know that many MP3 players now have WARNINGS saying what I have been saying for like 40 years!?!?!?

SO, in short(Yeah, I KNOW, TOO LATE!), I think you are over generalizing. Give everyone a break and at least be here a little longer. People have done FAR worse than you. HECK, **I** have, and have NOT been banned. I doubt you will be banned for ONE post.

HECK, look at ALEX, the head guy on this board. HE is in college, does talks, etc... HE seems to have his head on straight. I NEVER heard him say he was better than ANYONE, let alone EVERYONE. He doesn't often speak here, but doesn't over generalize, etc.... He makes it clear HE has AS. In SOME ways he is like I am, so I guess I can see it, would it be fair to accuse him, or even ME, of something you read that SOME people have written?

I agree with the principal point that no-one is better or worse than anyone else.

However, most of us are struggling in different situations, most of us have been the victims of abuse and ridicule by NTs (albeit an ignorant minority of NTs) and it's natural in a place like this that certain feelings get vented.

I'm not an NT-hater. But I do find them very difficult to deal with, much more so than the few aspies I am friends with on a face-to-face basis, so I'm not just speculating. There is a subtle difference between expressing hatred toward NTs, and expressing frustration toward them, but it's an important one.... and from what I've read here, it tends to be more the latter that people express. I don't think people can be blamed for that. In most countries around the world, we are still battling for our rights as equals in society. A little irritation and anger is bound to surface from time to time.

Likewise, around superiority.... I don't think it's so good to proclaim ourselves as the "master-race", but as an often isolated minority, it's natural than some people will respond to their experiences in a "pendulum-like" fashion, with a superior attitude. I don't agree with this attitude per se, but I wouldn't suppress it either, simply because it's good to see aspies being positive about ourselves, even if it's in a slightly over-done manner.

So my theory is live and let live, aspies and NTs alike. We should all be allowed to express our opinions, even if others don't agree with them.

I feel like I have crucified myself on here just for being me.

And I explained why it was logical.

TOM=theory of mind

Yeah I know people off the spectrum can lack TOM, be black and white, failure to put themselves in peoples shoes, lacking empathy.

It is a human reaction to bullying. Most of our lives, we have been treated as inferior to NTs; What you're seeing is people reversing this process, and taking it to the other extreme.

I am guilty of doing the same with sexism. When faced with a sexist remark, I have been known to be condescending, and deride the other sex, thus claiming mine to be superior. I then realize that my reaction was simply retaliation, and out of anger.

It is not logical to think that one sex is superior, or to believe those with AS are superior to NTs. It is simply a way to comfort one's self after dealing with derision for years.

We're equal, but different. This is as groups. Individuals can be far worse or far better than one another, depending on the circumstances.

I don't hate all NTs. All of my friends are NT. It was that at the age of 12, I've realized that if my NT parents weren't going to accept everything about me, theor own flesh and blood, that I would have to eventually become guarded. I keep my ears open to hear what people have to say about accents, sex or weight issues, or disabilities in that matter. If I hear a typical person say something nasty like for example, "A girl with an accent can't get a man in today's Canadian society." or "If you don't have sex, there's something wrong with your mind." or "Everybody should be going to the gym, and be the acceptable size for their age and gender." or "People with disabilities are slow...they're ret*d." than my guard will go up, and I won't like the person or people that I hear, saying such things. I will avoid that person, or those people. If I hear people saying nice things about individual differences, than I'll be the next in line, to make friends with them. That's just the way that I am.

I've learned a lot of things from people. I've learned not to say hurtful things about people who are different from the norm, and I've learned to treat everybody the way I wish to be treated. These are the types of people that I seek out to be friends with. People that I share the same values with, who know better than to say or do things that hurt other people. The irony of all this, is that society is more likely to call me slow, than they are to call the people who make the derogatory comments slow.

I just be myself on WP, and I don't care whether I've crucified myself the world over, over the past 4 months, or not. If I like posting here and talking about things that I'm dealing with, I'm going to keep comming here.

You explained why it was logical in your mind since you added a meaning around the sentence, but it still doesn't make monsterland's sentence logical on it own.


Has for the empathy I explained why I think we are seen has been lacking. So I don't think we have lower capacity then other human in putting ourselves in other people shoe it just that we cannot do it on moment notice. But I am speaking for the aspie, not sure how other autistic spectrum could be different on that point.

But I admit I will add a point to your side in my case I cannot understand an emotion I never felt and cannot roleplay myself in realistic fashion in situation that would never happen (but can roleplay other character).

A fair criticism I see as well.

Of course, we live in a world that has largely rejected us, overlooked our talents and gifts, denied us the ability to not only be self-sufficient (never mind "prosperous") but also to have any meaningful sense of contribution to human society.

Who else is "stroking our egos?" Nobody that I've noticed. Nobody will "pump us up" except ourselves. The key is to not take it too far.

And, frankly, looking at a lot of NTs, I conclude the only reason they are "better" than us is because they are the majority and the world is modeled after the majority because there are more of them, not because they are necessarily "better" than us.

A fair point. A lot of us are looking to see if indeed we are the lone freak in the world or if there are others with identical backgrounds and life experience, but it is a very short walk from seeking affirmation that we are the "norm" for the "AS experience" to wanting to host a "pity party" where we get to be the belle of the ball. Self-pity only keeps a person rooted in the past and unable to move forward.

Discovering you are not alone should be a time for catharsis (as much as we can experience that) and healing now that we know of others we can relate to. It should not be a discovery of a group you can bring together to stay rooted in pain and bitterness over the past.

I have a "life philosophy" that I'd engrave in granite if I had the money to waste.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR. GET OVER IT.

Sounds harsh, but I find if you accept the simple truth of this statement, you have a much easier time adapting to how life works. Even if society was to miraculously become 100% fair in human interaction, life itself (birth, death, disability, disease, etc.) has no sense of "fairness" (which is a human construct, not a natural one). I have an easy time accepting this view because one of my interests is survivalism, and the life of a survivalist must accept the harsh reality of life and death. "It's not fair" won't provide you shelter, provide your dinner, heat your cabin or protect you from an attacker. Taking responsibility for your life and doing something about the problem you face will do 10,000 time more than expecting someone else to swoop in and do it for you.

It takes a strong person to not stoop to the same level as their attacker. Since acting like an adult isn't a dominant NT trait, why be surprised that people with AS fail to meet such a standard automatically?

conclusions are what people come to when they stop thinking.

when i came here, i also was disappointed at the elitism that i seemed to see everywhere.

there is intellectual elitism, and sexual elitism (hot aspi pics topics), and philosophical elitism, and religious elitism, and many types of cliques that are resistant to new simpler people like me joining in.
i got called stupid and uneducated when i tried to post my ideas in threads wondering about say the beginning of time. i had no proof (links to thoughts of qualified professors who had thought my thoughts previously) or university education, so i was ostracized for daring to enter an arena of mental giants with my ideas from my isolated world of mere speculation.

when i posted my pic in the "post a pic of the real you" all i got was comments that i looked immature...etc.
then i saw that people who had posted for quite a while who were mostly ignored became very popular after they posted a pic of themselves revealing they are "hawt" (errgh what a term).

i saw in other threads (not in the pic thread), that many people posted posts that were designed to make themselves look innocently unaware of their "gifts" like beauty and intellect........

eg: "why do so many girls stare at me? why do they flick their hair and lick their lips whenever i am around? i seriously don't understand" (that is just an exaggerated example).
or eg: "people only use me as their calculating guru to solve all their logical problems and then they dump me". (another exaggerated example).
it seemed that they were more keen to convey an implied perception of themselves as good looking or super smart into the minds of the reader than trying to get advice about it if it was really happening.

and there were people who bash non autistic people as if AS is a very special club of evolved beings that are superior to people without autism.

there are "slaughterlord" mentalities and "pwn noobie" mentalities and all sorts on this site.

but i realized that i was hyper focusing on things i felt were distasteful rather than seeing the balance of the forum.
there are very many nice and unpretentious posters on this site, and they outnumber the people who i consider pretenders.


maybe do not judge AS people from what you read in the most unsavory posts you read just because it says "aspergers diagnosed" in their profile. maybe they lie.

but moreover, it is easy to focus intently on what displeases you while ignoring other things that are nice.

some of the posters are just kids anyway, and they maybe searching for an identity and they come here for a while before they move on (or stay).

i do not mean to say "just" kids because i was all i am now by the time i was 14, but some kids take a long while to find out who they are.

but i like most people here and i am glad they are not drawn in to the "aspergian nation" type stuff that is touted by the few who i negatively hyper focused on when i was new.

the fact that the contentious and controversial are allowed to remain and say what they think is an indication of how fair the site is.

the energetically conceited posters are like dragons with much fire to spew forth, but when they get tired they retreat and take a quieter seat.

maybe just relax and look at it all over the fullness of time rather than come to conclusions from a 7 hour stint

Forum whine sucker topic

Does nature abhor a vacuum? Then do not get sucked in.

People do not get crucified on WP. We can rant and rave--there are threads for this, especially in The Haven.

I learned empathy from my special interest, though not ToM of the neurotypical kind. And I think AS individuals know more about NTs than the NTs know about AS, as we have been hurt by their behaviour towards us. And so we talk about it. If this distresses you, Vincent VanJones, then do not bother to respond or even read any of it, especially for seven hours.

Go to PPR and debate.

After waking up and reading this thread (every post) I think I need to add abit:

I realize spending 7 hours is not normal, I never claimed it was.

However I also see that "maybe I should not judge a small subset of the AS community on what I see". Ok, what else am I supposed to judge it on? I am presented with what I see, it's there, there is nothing else. The site claims to be (in even the words of other users) "The biggest Aspie gathering point".

To address the point made that nara44 made in her post:

I never said people with Aspergers should not stand up for themselves. If thats what you got from my post, you missed half the post. I said that things are as the majority are regardless of what we want. I stated several times people with Aspergers need to defend themselves. I could also rip your post to shreds for grammar if I was so inclined but this is not a lesson on trolling.

You guys seem to think I don't get that it's hard for the majority, or that it's so easy for me. I say no such things. I know people with AS can struggle and have problems. Maybe consider that just because I have made such a post does not mean I do not have problems with any or most of these issues as well.

I also have no "idealist expectation" of the forum, nor do I think I am "Holier then thou". Thats bull. If it comes across like I expected more it is because of that people here at portray themselves as intelligent and should act as such. If people want to give an image, they should live up to it. I in no way think I am better either.

Also people seem to forget that having AS, or being a NT, does not change the fact they are still people. It is still used on here to describe us like we are one species and they are another.

This was neither a rant nor a rave. This was not meant for shock value either. I guess the OP was more of a statement of frustration.

There are obviously many smaller details. Obviously it is person to person. The OP was aimed at the community in general, not user A or Y.

Obviously some of you disagree with me. That's your right. I may not even be correct on my post. I can accept that I Human, Flawed, Autistic, and just one person with my views.

Also, I am not forgetting that some here actually are cripple by their autism, some actually are unable to speak, some get very easy sensory overload etc. The ones who are crippled as such are not the ones posting much really are they? Don't use that as a shield or excuse. I am talking to/about the community of people who are posting the things I mention. Is it really even right to say "Don't bash us because there are others even less capable"? Thats how I read that statement.

There are some such people. But that's not at all the dominant view on WP, although there are some other similar views that might at first glance seem the same. There are also the people who are trying to find a way to feel less inadequate about having a disability. Others who have come to peace and accepted that they are who they are. Many, many who are simply glad to have found a community of other people who are like them. Those things aren't the same as thinking that they're better than NTs.



This concept was actually addressed in a previous thread. It's a difficult line to distinguish, the difference between saying that something that someone does or is causes them to be bullied, but that they don't deserve it. I still haven't figured out what I could have done in school not to be tormented. So it's my fault that I didn't do something about it, when I had no idea what to do, none of the adults had any idea what to do, and I still can't even look back and think of anything that would have improved it? That doesn't make sense. Should I have killed myself to stop it? It didn't end up doing it, but I still can't think of anything else I could have done at the time that would have stopped it.
There's a difference between whining, and talking to people who understand.. Knowing other people went through the same thing, and that they understands, makes it less lonely.


I think a lot of people here want the same rights given to other people with disabilities. For most people, autism is a disability, but one that isn't clearly visible. Being disabled and then blamed for it stinks.


So what do you suggest that people do? You say you don't care if you offend people, and that the "community needs a wake-up call" and to stop bitching and actually do something.. Is bitching about how you don't like other people bitching what you consider "doing something about it?" In that case other people's bitching can be "doing something about it" too. Otherwise, you're just doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of doing.

Just like how some men hate women because they had bad experience with them so they trash talk them or a woman whose had bad experiance with a few guys so she trash talks about them. Or someone whose had bad experience with black people so that person trash talks black people. I could go on about other groups. Human nature I'd call it.

So I've leaned to not generalize or make stereotypes. I have met one person, I have met one person. Don't assume all people with X are Y. So I know everyone can learn to not do this. I don't care what human nature says, we can all learn to break it by not following it.

I've trash talked men but I have always said "most men" or "lot of men" so I wasn't generalizing and lumping all the nice guys into a catagory because I am aware not all of them are after sex and disrespectful towards women. But some members here who are male would still take that stuff personal despite me saying "most men." They must have forgotten I had a husband who was my fiancee then.

I was tempted to call it a troll attempt earlier in the day, but meh.

points the OP should keep in mind...

1)Society still stigmatizes people with "mental disabilities". Because of this, some people, not all, not even most, show a bit hatred and dislike towards what some refer as NTs

2)Some of us come from areas where there are no support structures whatsoever, as in either government agencies or even support groups. Of course because of it people can build up a large amount of frustration. It also doesn't help when the economy is down the shitter and stuff. Through the built up frustrations, some people will rant on here just so they can try to release some of the frustration.

3) Yeah, some people may believe us as the next step of evolution. even then the majority of us would say no. If you know anything about how evolution comes about, there would be no signs that aspergers is the coming of a new human race, that is unless all people with aspergers form their own space colony or something and only breed with other aspergians for a long time.

4)Most of us don't even hate "NTs" quite a few of us have friends, families, BFs/GFs and such that are "NT". So really.

5)some of us don't care what we come of as, while others will TRY to be tactful, while others don't even know the meaning of stuff like ToM, empathizing and whatnot. I can say as for me, yeah, I know I probably do come across as a narcissist, but that may be that I put myself into conversations quite a bit. Think for once, maybe I am better able to relate to stuff if I explain my own experiences on here in relation to other people. To you it may be narcissism and s**t, but to me its just a way to relate to others.

6)To must of us you may not have crucified yourself, but since I hate intelligence that hate isnt even a word to explain how I feel because it is no way severe enough to express my "hatred" of ignorance... so yeah..... You may have said bad overused stereotypes about AS, but here is what I say about you yourself, just from one post. Yeah you may be trying to discuss this from the NT point of view, but so what, learn to back up everything you say with facts. You are the one who is clueless. learn to f*****g observe more and analyze the gathered information in the correct way. You are the one who is coming across as stuck up as well. Conceited? whatever, as long as I know I am not, I am not. Worlds revolve around oneself? If you've paid any attention to what the f*****g symptoms are, maybe you would have realized that alot of the people on the autistic spectrum live in their own little world, so stop being such a f*****g alien.

no before I go off the handle, or ripping myself off of the proverbial leash. Gonna calm down a bit because as I said, your ignorance is what is pissing me off, sooooo yeah....