What are YOU doing for our 'silent' brothers and sisters?

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But still many of them, if not most, can't do it. I would identify with some of their opinions if I read them but it's just because I'd identify with some problems/opinions etc. expressed, regardless of from whom they would come out. Even if there are some particular aspects of their life I could identify with, there still remain many of them which are foreign to me so how could I ever do it or pretend I do, even just for the sake of politeness? To make some people feel better? Anyway it would be just flat out ridiculous if I identified with someone's problems which are different to mine; I can speak well. Some aspects of life of someone who can't speak, those related to this inability to speak, don't relate AT ALL to the life of someone who doesn't have this problem.

Last edited by Irulan on 26 Apr 2010, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm sorry, whom exactly is speaking or advocating for US?

As far as I can tell, we are all, every last one of us, treated as though we don't exist and if we do, we're feeble ret*ds who aren't worthy of consideration. I've been actively looking for well over a year and I can't find a single g*ddamned person - even those whose jobs are with organizations whose very names SAY: DISABILITY RIGHTS in their titles - who will lift a lazy f***king finger to speak or advocate on my behalf, so don't talk to me about my poor brothers and sisters. I can't help them any more than I can help myself.

They are not my 'brothers and sisters' any more than any other human on this planet.

I would donate to a charity for LFA people if someone was collecting for it, but other than that I would not go out of my way to seek them out.

x2

But if you truly have this wealth and philanthropic aspirations, I might suggest that you become a WP Supporter at the Gold level. This site tries to aid all of us.

Last edited by ViperaAspis on 26 Apr 2010, 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

In a significant sense...I believe i'm among the "less fortunate".

Willard wrote:

My sentiments exactly.


I've been fighting tooth and nail for assistance of all kinds for 22 years of my adult life. The so-called assistance i've received thus far is too absurdly inappropriate and infuriating to describe in detail.

It depends on how you define LFA. If the requirements for being LFA are to not be able / willing to talk and take care of yourself, then this assertion is correct. Circular, but correct.


Honestly, how many people can you relate 100% trait-to-trait with?

Going back to what you said earlier in the thread:

You are assuming you have nothing or little in common with someone simply because they cannot speak or take care of themselves. This reeks of Aspie elitism.

What do you propose we do- those of us who don't know what to do to help? I would like to help, and frankly I don't care if I identify with them or not. It is highly unlikely I will ever have any type of cancer, but I give to cancer charities all the time. I give to March of Dimes (even though I hate them sending the dimes in the mail- how wasteful). I give to causes all the time but I don't remember ever giving to autistic charities. I sent a phone book to an autistic gentleman and I will send another one this week. He collects them.

I don't have a lot of money, and sometimes I cant give to anyone, but i would extend my friendship. I think anyone who has comforted another soul here has given something. DOnt you think?

There is a school near me for children with AS, HFA, and other non-neurotypical disorders. I would give my eyeteeth to work or even volunteer at this school. Unfortunately, they are not currently doing any training (and you need to take their training classes even to volunteer). In the meantime, I am saving money for a degree in Special Needs Education, with the goal of working with children with AS. Eventually, I would like to become a professional advocate and educator for AS and other learning/physical disabilities that impact childrens' lives. I'm not very sure what I can/could do for adults...too bad there are no jobs (that I know of) translating between those with AS and NTs. I think I could do that!

I can relate to aspies MUCH more than to LFA people, that's obvious, so I don't know why you are trying so hard to convince me that I have more in common with LFA than I claim. Your simplified "Honestly, how many people can you relate 100% trait-to-trait with?" statement boils the whole issue down to an absurd. Of course I have LITTLE to do with a stereotypical LFA, unable to take care of themselves, regardless of how many traits I share with them - using my previous analogy, could I seriously say I have much to do with a blind person while I only need strong glasses? I may have bad eyesight but it has LITTLE to do with being blind or almost blind. I don't see anything bad in aspie elitism. I seriously don't understand why some people on WP want aspies to identify with LFA people in such a degree

You can't see what's wrong with aspie elitism? Wow. Aspie elitism contributes to all manner of problems up to and including life and death issues for people like me.

But on the topic of the original post. I don't actually divide up autistic people the way most people do.

Just about everyone is capable of self-advocacy on one level or another. To define self-advocacy narrowly as something only people who speak or type can do, is itself fairly prejudiced:

http://www.autistics.org/library/self-advocacy.html

Anyway, what sort of stuff do I do?

I work with a group at MIT that is attempting to develop inexpensive communication technology for autistic people. I have coauthored a paper with the person who runs that group.

I teach people about the full range of communication difficulties possible among autistic people, including the fact that both those with and without superficially adequate speech or writing can have severe communication impairments.

I teach people (including parents and caregivers) on how to look for and encourage and avoid discouraging both standard and nonstandard forms of communication and self-advocacy. Including teaching people that if you treat people with respect then they will automatically respond forcefully to disrespect even if they have no standard communication.

I co-run a mailing list for autistic people who have trouble with daily living skills.

Among other autistic people I fight against elitism wherever I find it. I also attempt to teach people about what it's like to be regarded as low functioning (not terminology I am fond of for a variety of reasons) and try to dispel myths about what is and isn't inevitable when you have certain kinds or degrees of impairments. (Yes that's part of what I do here.)

I write a widely read blog that includes all of the above and also focuses on my own life as a person who is easily classified as a nonperson or at least a very useless person. I have also made videos on that topic, one of which made the news for awhile (although I regret agreeing to that -- both the meaning of my video and the events of my life became distorted, and while I agreed to this in order to gain wider visibility for the kind of advocacy I do, they tended to distort that too and do the usual inspirational disability story and focused on me as a person instead of my ideas. Which was massively aggravating.

In my everyday life I try to hold on to the principles that are behind all this stuff I do, and respond to situations as they come up. I also try to constantly defy the idea that lives like mine (and others) are worthless, lesser than others, or just cause for despair.

This entire thread has made me even more depressed than I already am.


On a brighter note....I think it's provided great reinforcement for my own nihilism and misanthropy.


Most people don't really give a s**t about anyone but themselves regardless of what they claim to the contrary.

It was inexpressibly stupid of me to think that people who share the same disorder as I do (if only in name alone) may be a bit more compassionate towards their fellows. Instead...the indifference expressed here towards those on the spec who are deemed "low functioning" and who may lack all those magical, "Aspieskilz" has received one cheap rationalization after another.

What the "Aspie elite" seem to conveniently forget is that many of them weren't viewed as so elite 50 years ago. They have wilfully forgotten what it's like to be among the untouchable caste. This is especially troubling in the world's richest nation where much SHOULD be expected from those to whom has been given.

So I admit my attitude towards many of my so-called "high functioning" fellows on the spec was actually dehumanizing aside from being just plain stupid. It was no different than the mentality implied by people who are shocked when a woman commits some heinous violent crime.

Both Aspie elites and woman are human....all-too human i'm afraid.

Seem fits.
Anyway, Hannibal Lecter is most likely not a psychopath.
He is too calculating and calm for this.
He is a serial killer, no doubt, but the two are not connected.
He is not a comfort killer, he is a thrill killer, or perhaps a power/control killer.
Anyhow, the difference is that he is an organized/nonsocial serial killer, who usually have above average IQs, as opposed to the often psychopathic disorganized/asocial killer.

Last edited by ursaminor on 26 Apr 2010, 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anbuend just beat me to it... not being able to talk doesn't mean being unable to advocate for yourself.

It does mean a heck of a lot of vulnerability, though, because communicating precise concepts is difficult if you aren't good with language; and many human beings (me included) are very language-focused. If they let the language focus get the better of them, they start to think that if you can't speak you haven't got anything to say.

It shouldn't be this way. Not being able to use language shouldn't mean that people feel like they've got a right to step on your rights. But they do, and it's harder to get them to stop if they can just tell themselves whatever they're doing is for your own good. Not being able to tell people precisely what you want makes it easier for them to excuse dismissing your desires, or just not even bothering to figure out what they are.

Not that talking makes you immune to this kind of exploitation. For one thing, there's the large group of people who can talk but have problems expressing themselves, getting into confrontations, or navigating the social problems required to make a complaint in the first place. That group, incidentally, contains a lot of Aspie types; for that matter, I think it contains disproportionately many, because the closer you get to typical, the more pressure there is to stand back, go along with things, and be a "good girl/boy" , lest you be mocked for making the wrong move. If you're obviously disabled and you can't hide it, that pressure isn't nearly as strong (though naturally that problem gets replaced by others).

If we advocate for human rights just for non-verbal autistics, we'll leave behind the people who can talk but have been beaten down so repeatedly that they don't know the option of self-advocacy exists. And if we only advocate for human rights for people who can speak, then we leave the rest behind to have their efforts to decide for themselves ignored and labeled "behaviors".

Hang together, or we hang separately. Simple as that. Although in this case, the threat tends to be more along the lines of haldol and homelessness, not generally the noose.

If you're an Aspie, and you don't think you have anything in common with non-verbal autistics, I highly recommend following a few blogs, talking to a few parents, getting to know people who don't speak. You'll find there are differences and similarities; and that there are differences and similarities between you and other Aspies, too. I know we often come here looking for people who are like ourselves, so we can stop feeling so much like outsiders; but down at the bottom of it, we have to acknowledge the diversity of the spectrum--not just aspie versus autie, but simply person to person. Speaking or not speaking is a dramatic, obvious difference; but you may be surprised--on some of the subtler things, you may find you have more in common with people who, superficially, seem very different.

Me... let's see. Letter-writing; active on a few forums; keeping a blog; going to a few local autism meetings; disability advocacy group at school... random stuff. Oh, and I'm going to be a rehab engineer, both because assistive technology fascinates me and because I'm sick of seeing disabled people get the short end of the stick--technology can fill in a little bit of the gap.

Yeah I've met a few people who only advocated forthose they called low functioning and claimed those they deemed high functioning had no issues other than superficial meaningless ones that weren't important. I attempted to tell them, repeatedly over a period of years, that those deemed high functioning can die from attitudes like that through being denied services, told them a lot of true stories. The reaction I got? Stony silence. They didn't even respond to me. Then later they would repeat the same things. Such people are as dangerous as the aspie elitism thing, just a mirror image.

Forgot other things I have done have included lobbying for adult services at the state house, and other stuff I've done in that realm, as well as doing abuse prevention/detection stuff with agencies. And I have intervened in situations where I knew there was abuse because I shared staff with the abused person and staff grasped the concept that confidentiality shouldn't be used as a shield for abusers. Taken a good deal of crap for it too including false accusations of attacking people, having services put indefinitely on hold by one of the abusers (a wonderful staff person gave me services anyway free of charge to keep me alive, while the abuser took money for services she wasn't giving anyone), etc.

Basically I do what I can where I can, and don't keep a running tally of what I've done so I forget stuff. (This is one thing I can't stand when people say that people on the net aren't doing anything off the net. One, not everyone can. Two, how do they know unless we have a habit of telling everyone what we've done?)

I find it hard to know what the right sort of support is. Thinking here of a well-meaning online friend who wanted to support a colleague with an autistic son, so did a walkathon for Autism Speaks. I don't want to inadvertently contribute to an evil or misguided agenda.