What's a socially challenged adult to do?

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Hi Geezer!

I'm well aware that an free online test that someone puts out doesn't have the scientific solidity of a commercial test where someone put a lot of work into standardizing the test. Nonetheless, given the emphasis of your speech and your obvious involvement in the field, and especially given that you make the effort to use trademark signs in a context--noncommercial speech--where they are not really required, do you maybe have a reputational or even financial stake in the MBTI tests? If so, it'd be fair to tell people.

As I alluded to in my initial post, my own perspective on psychometrics is a little bit sarcastic from the experience of going through endless batteries of intelligence tests as a kid and never getting anything out of them but a general confirmation of the obvious, i.e. that my cognitive skills are pretty high. That's not quite true, though: They had two uses. On the one hand they probably were an argumentation aid for well-meaning teachers to let me skip grades rather than to retain me, and on the other hand they probably were excellent preparation for the TOEFL/SAT/SAT II which got me into a very coveted college despite merely good grades from a school no one ever heard of. But the result in terms of actionable recommendations of any kind for any of my problems (social functioning, severe underperformance in some school subjects, etc.) was absolutely nil.

I will definitely take a look at the web sites and books, though.

If somebody wants me to take a test I mean an "instrument" they better pay me.
And if I pay somebody $150 I better be getting a meal, movie and a place to
sleep that night(and they better make sure I get a "good" nights sleep).

Yes, I got a little carried away there, didn't I? The rant was inappropriate. My apologies.

In the interests of full disclosure, I hereby declare that my interest in psychological type is personal and professional, but that I have no financial or reputational stake in the field. On the personal side, I learned about type about 20 years ago. It had life-changing consequences that continue to this day. On the professional side, I taught English as a Second Language, where a knowledge of type eased the way with students, colleagues and administrators. As far as the use of the trademark symbol, I have for years had a small company called Intellectual Property Associates. The ownership of intellectual property -- and today's rampant piracy thereof - is a Big Deal for me, so I try to observe the niceties whenever possible.

I would hope that you can put your somewhat suspicious approach to intelligence tests on hold until you learn a bit more about type. The MBTI™ is not an intelligence test, and the feedback you get will only briefly touch on intelligence unless you want to go into it more deeply. The instrument is a reflection, or "indicator," of how you go about being yourself. There are enough differences between people that it's worth knowing just how *you* go about it, and how that differs from how others go about it.

Since you seem to be in a commercial setting, there is another book you may be interested in:

Isachsen, O., and Berens, L. V. (1988). Working Together (I haven't figured out how to get italics on this message board yet), Neworld Management Press, Coronado, CA. It's also probably available from CAPT.

I'm glad to hear you're going to check out the web sites and the books.

g

I think you are lucky to have a well paid job where the work environment allows you to simply be. That has not been my experience and I have worked at many highly prestigious positions. Each job failure and subsequent humiliation just compounded the depressing sense of futility that has now taken over my life. Just as you had described your early school experience with the raw pungency as if it happened yesterday, I would speak of my many episodes of public disgrace with a directness and incomprehension of recent trauma. And it is not just what I did, it was others sought to do because they could tell that I was different. And without the strength of the pack, I was weak.

Rejection by the pack, forced to be a lone wolf scrounging the wilds for whatever pickings are available, that pretty much sums up what life for Aspies typically is. There are some extreme outliers who utilize their quirky individuality to achieve enormous fame and fortune, but most people find themselves falling in between the cracks. Most people with Asperger Syndrome will not strike others as disabled. On the contrary, their cognitive skills will make them stand out as amongst the most “able” members of any group. Consequently, when Aspies fail to meet group norms, we tend to inspire a great deal of hostility.

If you are unhappy about not having a social life, I would suggest that you go through this message board and learn about the lives of others who have even less. Most people with Asperger Syndrome could probably care less about a lack of social life; they are simply trying to survive in a world that seems intent on keeping them out. Relationships and marriage become vague and distant ideas that do not comport well in the framework of the pain that others have so repeatedly inflicted. After a while, you learn as an Aspie that it is not about the evil antics of one or two people, it is about you being so different from others that are in effect rejecting you as a human being.

But I do understand the hollow frustration of not having a relationship, not getting regular, boring sex, or watching television with someone whose hair you can play with and whose “uh huh” fills in the void. But there is no cure for Asperger Syndrome. There is a book written by Graham Greene, “The End of the Affair”. In that novella, an established bureaucrat finds his young wife having an affair with a writer. The bureaucrat is stricken but not entirely unforgiving for he understands that he should never have married. He did not know how to be a husband. If indeed you do have Asperger Syndrome, I would ask if it would be the right thing to do for you to engage in a relationship with someone else. It is unlikely that you can ever give this person what he/she needs.

For this reason, I do not regret not being in a relationship. I truly believe that solitude is best for all men and necessary for those who have Asperger Syndrome.

Whoa, Zeno...thanks for the encouragement. Have you ever considered depression as a diagnosis--which different from AS, personality types, and the like in many cases _is_ treatable...

I get the sense that you are gloating in your posts. It's almost as if you are looking at us Aspies and basically saying "what a bunch of losers". Is it that big of a deal to get a Phd? Is it that big of a deal to work in a prestigious position? If you're a corporate drone, no matter how you cut it, you're still a drone.

Life is hard for people with Aspergers. Read the 1941 paper by Hans Asperger and even then he describes the parents of some of these children as leading shattered lives. There was a man who eked out a living making brooms but describes himself as “cerebral”. That’s a bit like the garbage collector telling you that he spends his free time philosophizing. You can see why people are going to snort at the poor fellow.

But you are right, depression and Aspergers does co-vary. Most people who have Aspergers struggle with depression all of their lives. And if you go through this message board, you will know that I am not making anything up.

You came onto a public message board asking for an opinion and you got one. I am willing to wager my little finger that most people who have Aspergers would agree with me. Just because you did not get the validation that you are looking for, does not mean that I am wrong. THERE IS NO CURE FOR THIS CONDITION. Which means that however painful it was in the past, most of us can expect more of the same in the future. All I have done is to tell it like it is.

I'm not gloating at all. I was asking for advice and thought that this would require telling my story. My criticism of your opinion was merely of your outlook on life that because there's no cure for AS most who have it are doomed to live in perpetual frustration without a chance of relief, and this, IMHO, is the worst kind of self-fulfilling prophecy possible, and one that I claim has more to do with depression--for which, in many cases, there are effective treatments--than with AS or related conditions. It is also the attitude of the elementary school principal who indeed wanted to send me to the school where future garbage collectors go. All of us have our challenges and IMHO it's more productive to talk about ways to overcome them than to pull each other down by reveling together in our misery.

Well one thing I have notice is one your very smart and likely have alot of good
addvice yet your here primary to extract knowledge (granted you may find little).
The fact there is so few answer here is because so many people are merely extracting knowledge and giving noithing in return. Thats maybe because of
lack of empathy in so many of us.

I'm going off topic here, but I think it's important. It's too simplistic to say that all corporate jobs are dull and monotonous. Corporate jobs can, in some cases, be very stimulating and rewarding. Many jobs are very people orientated, which is ideal for extraverts. Many jobs can be intellectually stimulating, for example, in the strategic side of finance. Entrepreneurial jobs can be extremely gratifying, as you come up with your own idea, put together a team, and then make that idea into a reality.