700,000 Jobs being created, yet 2 million are graduating?

Page 2 of 3 [ 38 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

20 Jun 2011, 3:30 pm

Janissy wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well actually what I said was a direct response to your post....I think a large majority of employers are after cheap labor not experiance or education.

Employers are after whatever costs them the least money. Sometimes that's cheap labor and sometimes it's not. If the job is pretty complex and involved, they don't want to have to spend a lot of their own money getting a person ready to do it. So if the person has already done it somewhere else (most ideal) or has at least gone to school for it (next most ideal), they save a lot of money they would have to spend teaching the job. The smaller the lag time between hiring and competently working, the more money they save, even if they have to pay a larger starting salary. Experience (and to a lesser extent, education) also saves them money because it makes it less likely to have to fire a person for not being able to do the job- since they've done it before elsewhere.If the job is pretty simple and requires little training (at another job or in school) then their priority is cheap labor. But they lose money if they only hire for lowest salary and then keep getting somebody who can't quite do the job or has to be trained for a very long time.

Yes because money is the most important thing, who cares if people are being paid below minimum wage and being exploited for the employers personal gain. I don't have a huge problem for paying people based on the level of the job or whatever.......but the fact that its all about income and nothing else is a bit disturbing.

Quote:

But while I am on the topic how do they expect people to get experiance when there are hardly any jobs and how do they expect people with difficulties like having aspergers or depression to make a living when no one wants to hire anyone that is not a perfect model citizen.

That doesn't even enter an employer's mind. The don't care if people have a hard time getting experience or have other difficulties because there is such a giant pool of people to choose from who don't. When labor supply outnumbers available jobs, employers don't need to care that person X can't get experience. They have so many other people who do have experience to choose from. That is the perilous situation that the article is describing. There are more people than available jobs and so the employer doesn't need to care. If there were fewer people for the available jobs, they would be more willing to sink the money into on-the-job training or accomodations rather than let the job go unfilled. But there is currently no danger of any job going unfilled.
Yes the only thing that might enter their mind is 'wow I might lose some precious money if I hire this defective employee with mental problems.'

How to change that balance? I think corporate taxes should be changed to make it more tax-favorable for companies
to hire locally rather than shipping out. Maybe tax incentives also for very small (such as even 1-4 person) companies to encourage people to be their own job creators rather than hoping somebody will hire them.

And well I simply don't have the skill or resources to create my own job.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

20 Jun 2011, 3:35 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

I recently heard on NPR that there are currently over 2 million jobs going unfilled because the companies cannot find qualified people.

Jobs created are not the entire picture.

Are these low-end jobs?

ruveyn

wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

20 Jun 2011, 4:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

I recently heard on NPR that there are currently over 2 million jobs going unfilled because the companies cannot find qualified people.

Jobs created are not the entire picture.

Are these low-end jobs?

ruveyn

No. At least according to the report, these aren't minimum wage. Most of them require training of some type well beyond high school. Part of the problem is that current manufacturing processes aren't as simple as someone standing in front a machine stamping the same part every day. There is a mismatch between education and the job markets. Many don't require 4 year degrees. But it is also turning out that many 4 year degrees are never utilized. People will graduate with a BA or BS and never use it.

The real point here is that the job market is nowhere near as simplistic as our politicians like us to believe. Sound bites do us a great disservice.

_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.

Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

20 Jun 2011, 4:14 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

I recently heard on NPR that there are currently over 2 million jobs going unfilled because the companies cannot find qualified people.

Jobs created are not the entire picture.

Are these low-end jobs?

ruveyn

Maybe trade schools will make a come-back. I know there are plenty out there now, but currently they are regarded as what you do only if you can't get into a 4 year degree school. Is an English degree really worth more than training as an electrician? I think that for many people it is worth quite a bit less.

wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

20 Jun 2011, 4:21 pm

Janissy wrote:

An electrician is actually a darned good vocation. And a good electrician has to be diligent in keeping up with their field just as much as any 4 year degree career path.

Part of the NPR report was about the lack of solid vocational training.

_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.

Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

20 Jun 2011, 4:22 pm

Janissy wrote:

I know more than a few people who have gone from trade schools to good jobs even in the past few years. They're definitely still functional ways to enter the market.

I actually was refused a job that I was overqualified for because I didn't have an English degree. Of course if I did get hired and it turned out like all my other jobs, I'd overload, burn out, and lose it within six months so I guess it wasn't that great a loss - for me, anyway.

oldmantime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 522

20 Jun 2011, 4:23 pm

none of them will be employed unless at walmart or some equally worthless job. i've seen very well educated people working min wage jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuSFaGhG ... re=related

bergie
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 290
Location: Phoenix, AZ

20 Jun 2011, 4:30 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

I recently heard on NPR that there are currently over 2 million jobs going unfilled because the companies cannot find qualified people.

Jobs created are not the entire picture.

Most of those 2 million are just the employers gaming the system so they can hire foreign H1B visa workers. They are required to try to fill the job with an American first so they advertise a job like: "NYC .Net Programmer, must have 15+ years experience, pay: $12 per hour"

wavefreak58
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,419
Location: Western New York

20 Jun 2011, 4:38 pm

bergie wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

I recently heard on NPR that there are currently over 2 million jobs going unfilled because the companies cannot find qualified people.

Jobs created are not the entire picture.

Do you have any evidence of this or are you just parroting talking points?

_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.

SadAspy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.

20 Jun 2011, 4:47 pm

Janissy wrote:

That doesn't even enter an employer's mind. The don't care if people have a hard time getting experience or have other difficulties because there is such a giant pool of people to choose from who don't. When labor supply outnumbers available jobs, employers don't need to care that person X can't get experience. They have so many other people who do have experience to choose from. That is the perilous situation that the article is describing. There are more people than available jobs and so the employer doesn't need to care. If there were fewer people for the available jobs, they would be more willing to sink the money into on-the-job training or accomodations rather than let the job go unfilled. But there is currently no danger of any job going unfilled.

How to change that balance? I think corporate taxes should be changed to make it more tax-favorable for companies to hire locally rather than shipping out. Maybe tax incentives also for very small (such as even 1-4 person) companies to encourage people to be their own job creators rather than hoping somebody will hire them.

I think this is right for the most part, but there's a couple points I'd like to make....

1. I graduated college the first time in '05, when unemployment was fairly low, and still most employers wouldn't give me a chance due to lack of experience. I've spoken to people who started their careers during the early 80's recession and they say even then companies would train people. I really think companies just don't want to train anymore, regardless of how the job market is.

2. One way to get around the "no experience" problem is to get an internship. I do still see those on job boards....the problem is I'm overqualified for those! They want people in college or very recent graduates. Ugh.

wavefreak58 wrote:

I don't see why we should feel sorry for companies too lazy to train people. Either that or they're not offering enough pay for these positions if qualified people aren't applying for them. It's the company's problem, not anyone else's. They sound like spoiled brats who don't like their birthday presents when they complain about not getting qualified workers when unemployment is 9%.

raisedbyignorance
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,225
Location: Indiana

21 Jun 2011, 12:10 am

College has indeed proven to be a waste. A part of me regrets ever going, especially when universities do absolutely nothing to set you up for internships or career search and interview prep. You have to do that stuff on your own. And for a naive college student with AS there was no one around to inform me that I would have to pursue and learn about internships in order to get anywhere. No professor is going to hint you in on that and for that, I got screwed over.

Just the other day a friend's mom pointed out how the people (clearly immigrants) working on her lawn and garage repairs after a massive storm were going to make far more money doing that than her son will as he currently pursuing a doctorate in English education. There was nothing offensive about it because we all knew it to be true and had a good laugh but still she was right and that was the depressing thing about it.

My parents meanwhile remained delusional about the job market situation and believe I should be capable of getting a job because I have a college degree. They never graduated from college thus their delusions.

SadAspy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.

21 Jun 2011, 9:56 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:

Good post. This says it all.

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

22 Jun 2011, 9:32 am

raisedbyignorance wrote:

For a naive college student with AS there was no one around to inform me that I would have to pursue and learn about internships in order to get anywhere. No professor is going to hint you in on that and for that, I got screwed over.

You really need an internship in order to get anywhere? Because, while it's true those with internships did tend to get on the fast-track to higher status jobs than other graduates at my university, it seemed the majority didn't have an internship and I assume the majority of them are going to find technology jobs. Well, a simple majority...

I'm thinking it's the combination of being social 'unskilled' and not having a internship was the crux of the issue. Because those who are "socially skilled" but lack any serious experience seem to find jobs, as they 'network' and find more opportunities, and employers naturally find those who more skillfully socially interact with them more attractive. And by "skillful", I also mean having the ability to convince the employer they'd be an awesome employee. :lol:

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Jun 2011, 9:33 am

swbluto wrote:

So, according to the latest jobs report, it looks like the US economy is on track to add 700,000 jobs this year. I also read that there are supposed to be 2,000,000 students graduating this year from college. As a college student who's going to graduate this fall, I'm wondering what are the implications. Does this suggest less than half of all graduates are going to find a job within a year? And, with the increased selectivity that comes with job applicants far out-numbering job openings, does this have implications for those socially and, subsequently, professionally disadvantaged in some way like those with autism, schizophrenia and weirdos in general? For example, since more people are applying to serve in the military, the selectivity has increased and they recently decided to exclude anyone with a formal diagnosis of aspergers.

Time to reintroduce the Draft.

ruveyn

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

22 Jun 2011, 9:37 am

Janissy wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well actually what I said was a direct response to your post....I think a large majority of employers are after cheap labor not experiance or education.

Employers are after whatever costs them the least money. Sometimes that's cheap labor and sometimes it's not. If the job is pretty complex and involved, they don't want to have to spend a lot of their own money getting a person ready to do it. So if the person has already done it somewhere else (most ideal) or has at least gone to school for it (next most ideal), they save a lot of money they would have to spend teaching the job. The smaller the lag time between hiring and competently working, the more money they save, even if they have to pay a larger starting salary. Experience (and to a lesser extent, education) also saves them money because it makes it less likely to have to fire a person for not being able to do the job- since they've done it before elsewhere.

If the job is pretty simple and requires little training (at another job or in school) then their priority is cheap labor. But they lose money if they only hire for lowest salary and then keep getting somebody who can't quite do the job or has to be trained for a very long time.

Yep. Employers are mainly looking for the greatest amount of value and while seeking to pay the lowest wage possible is the main objective for simpler jobs, for more skillful jobs, you get what you pay for and a higher wage may help attract that talented employee that employers are looking for in fields where talent/skill matters.

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

22 Jun 2011, 9:42 am

ruveyn wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Time to reintroduce the Draft.

ruveyn

Time to reintroduce the Works Progress Administration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Prog ... nistration

Page 2 of 3 [ 38 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

700,000 Jobs being created, yet 2 million are graduating? Post Reply New Topic

700,000 Jobs being created, yet 2 million are graduating?