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Aspies are basically NTs, but impaired?

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Joe90
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08 Nov 2011, 4:43 pm

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NT/autism is a specific way of subdividing the population of humans. And, as you surely know, the term NT was actually created by the autism community to be applied to people that were not autistic. Additionally, NT has been corrupted to include things like schizophrenia and ADHD. NT, as orginally intended, meant NOT AUTISTIC. It did not mean less normal.


I always thought ''neurotypical'' meant people who were typically developing as a child and have the typical brain without any deficits what affect the individual's learning and behaviour in a way that could be diagnosed as some sort of disorder.

People with Mental Retardation who need 24 hour care aren't Autistic, but I wouldn't look upon them as ''neurotypicals''. So if an Autistic child went to a special school instead of mainstream, the other children there would be neurotypicals too? I even feel more like a neurotypical (or I could pass off as being a neurotypical) than a person with Mental Retardation. I know a girl with Fragile-X Syndrome, but she finds it difficult to make friends, so it must affect her social mind.


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08 Nov 2011, 4:51 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
NT/autism is a specific way of subdividing the population of humans. And, as you surely know, the term NT was actually created by the autism community to be applied to people that were not autistic. Additionally, NT has been corrupted to include things like schizophrenia and ADHD. NT, as orginally intended, meant NOT AUTISTIC. It did not mean less normal.


I always thought ''neurotypical'' meant people who were typically developing as a child and have the typical brain without any deficits what affect the individual's learning and behaviour in a way that could be diagnosed as some sort of disorder.

People with Mental Retardation who need 24 hour care aren't Autistic, but I wouldn't look upon them as ''neurotypicals''. So if an Autistic child went to a special school instead of mainstream, the other children there would be neurotypicals too? I even feel more like a neurotypical (or I could pass off as being a neurotypical) than a person with Mental Retardation. I know a girl with Fragile-X Syndrome, but she finds it difficult to make friends, so it must affect her social mind.


AKAIK, neurotypical was a originally a term coined to refer to people not on the autism spectrum. Other diagnoses were not involved. But it turned out to be a convenient way to separate "normal" and "not normal" neurology and so has been adopted rather widely.


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Joe90
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08 Nov 2011, 4:58 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
NT/autism is a specific way of subdividing the population of humans. And, as you surely know, the term NT was actually created by the autism community to be applied to people that were not autistic. Additionally, NT has been corrupted to include things like schizophrenia and ADHD. NT, as orginally intended, meant NOT AUTISTIC. It did not mean less normal.


I always thought ''neurotypical'' meant people who were typically developing as a child and have the typical brain without any deficits what affect the individual's learning and behaviour in a way that could be diagnosed as some sort of disorder.

People with Mental Retardation who need 24 hour care aren't Autistic, but I wouldn't look upon them as ''neurotypicals''. So if an Autistic child went to a special school instead of mainstream, the other children there would be neurotypicals too? I even feel more like a neurotypical (or I could pass off as being a neurotypical) than a person with Mental Retardation. I know a girl with Fragile-X Syndrome, but she finds it difficult to make friends, so it must affect her social mind.


AKAIK, neurotypical was a originally a term coined to refer to people not on the autism spectrum. Other diagnoses were not involved. But it turned out to be a convenient way to separate "normal" and "not normal" neurology and so has been adopted rather widely.


Well obviously non-Autistics are neurotypicals, but not all non-Autistics are neurotypicals. I now call myself ''neurodiverse'', and many others who have other disorders besides Autism.


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08 Nov 2011, 5:27 pm

These aspie bashing threads of yours are unkind to others

Why do you start many of them (2-3) everyday?

many lower functioning aspies here on WP may in fact be less impaired than your on-going negativity and put downs

Is this what you get paid to do? or do you just enjoy hurting others?

you are impaired by a sickness in your heart



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08 Nov 2011, 5:35 pm

Surfman wrote:
These aspie bashing threads of yours are unkind to others

Why do you start many of them (2-3) everyday?

many lower functioning aspies here on WP may in fact be less impaired than your on-going negativity and put downs

Is this what you get paid to do? or do you just enjoy hurting others?

you are impaired by a sickness in your heart


What are you talking about? I embrace my autism fully and I personally don't think there's anything "wrong with it", but I keep looking at the way that many neurotypicals look at it and it does seem to make sense, especially when I observe these differences between myself and other NTs and aspies and other NTs.

Just because I accept autism, however, doesn't mean I'm unwilling to examine the harsh realities in an unbiased way and the more accurate our understanding is, the better we can compensate. Living in fairytell LA LA land where "we're perfectly OK just different" is not going to help us out in the REAL WORLD where you must learn and use COMPENSATORY STRATEGIES to succeed, and to LEARN THEM requires you to fully understand your relative weaknesses so they don't hinder you as much as when you're blind to them. Get it? Better understanding = Better compensatory strategies = Higher chance of succeeding.

Now, if you want to continue building castles in the sky, that's fine with me, but I operate in the real world since that's what 90% of my day is about.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:05 pm

swbluto, could you please clear something up for me. for whatever reason, they way you are writing is not working with how i think. I have read several of your threads, and they seem to be either systomatically trying to prove certian people who think they are aspergers are not, or that aspies are no diffrent then nts, or that aspies are less then nts "ret*d to use that dreaded word. I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings." Clearly, because that would make no sense, i am deeply misunderstanding what you are saying. If you are not trying to tell us we don't have aspergers, and aren't talking down to us, what are you doing. I hate to cause offence, i just don't understand...

i guess what i really want to know is: If you were to sum up your purpose behind the majority of the threads you have made here, what would that purpose be? Because clearly i am missing some important factor.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:11 pm

scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?

House-cats, if they knew of them, envy tigers considering how strong and able they are. Little girls envy women, knowing they have "maturity" and "independence" they long for but are lacking. Those less envy those who have more and such is the way of the world.



Last edited by swbluto on 08 Nov 2011, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

scmnz
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08 Nov 2011, 8:14 pm

swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?



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08 Nov 2011, 8:18 pm

scmnz wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?


Wait until you get to the real world where "less" becomes a bit more tangible. It's fine and dandy when you're living with your parents, but when you get to the "real world" and realize the "promises of adulthood" are reserved for those so privileged to have them, it becomes a bit more apparent.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:22 pm

swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?


Wait until you get to the real world where "less" becomes a bit more tangible. It's fine and dandy when you're living with your parents, but when you get to the "real world" and realize the "promises of adulthood" are reserved for those so privileged to have them, it becomes a bit more apparent.


I do not share your point of view, but at least your views now make sense to me. Thank you for explaining.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:26 pm

swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?


Wait until you get to the real world where "less" becomes a bit more tangible. It's fine and dandy when you're living with your parents, but when you get to the "real world" and realize the "promises of adulthood" are reserved for those so privileged to have them, it becomes a bit more apparent.


Hi. :)
I live in the real world; my parents moved away a couple of months back, so I now have all those adult responsibilities including bills and stuff.
My impairments are clearly there, and yes, they do cause difficulty, but I don't see that as making me a lesser being.


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08 Nov 2011, 8:38 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?


Wait until you get to the real world where "less" becomes a bit more tangible. It's fine and dandy when you're living with your parents, but when you get to the "real world" and realize the "promises of adulthood" are reserved for those so privileged to have them, it becomes a bit more apparent.


Hi. :)
I live in the real world; my parents moved away a couple of months back, so I now have all those adult responsibilities including bills and stuff.
My impairments are clearly there, and yes, they do cause difficulty, but I don't see that as making me a lesser being.


Maybe you don't have particularly high expectations?

See, there's this .... well, let's call it "Ideal person" that you have in mind that seems to be at least as great as your average peer. When there's a significant mismatch between this ideal and your actual self, and this ideal is easily obtainable for the average peer given they had the ambition and dedication, it kind of makes you feel 'less' than them because they can do what you can't. You know?



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08 Nov 2011, 8:55 pm

swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?

House-cats, if they knew of them, envy tigers considering how strong and able they are. Little girls envy women, knowing they have "maturity" and "independence" they long for but are lacking. Those less envy those who have more and such is the way of the world.



I'm guessing you being on the introverted spectrum alone makes socializing an effort, and not in general a reward.
In other words do you feel left out due to these other special social problems? As unable to find a mirror in people so to speak, as to reflect something back at you that you belong --hence an 'outsider?'

If that is the dynamic this would be difficult to endure and I relate. My differences are manifold: Introversion, ADD impatience/impulsiveness,distracted, lost in thought, drifting, etc ..i.e. quirkiness. Additionally I've found my general knowledge is usually divisive or a 'put off.' People seem to 'not know' or want to get too deep and thus distance. I've heard many times: " You are different."

If you can find your sweet spot or * niche* to work out of to make a living, find a soulmate ( if that is a desire) and maybe make a few real time friends; you'd feel adjusted and would forget about "ToM."

Live.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:57 pm

swbluto wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
swbluto wrote:
scmnz wrote:
I don't understand why, if these are your views, you would be here, talking to us "lesser beings."


I am a lesser being talking among equals and I envy our NT overlords. Is that so wrong?


And, am i right in thinking you would believe me to be fooling myself and living in a dream world if i argued that, although i have difficultys many do not, i am not less then they are?


Wait until you get to the real world where "less" becomes a bit more tangible. It's fine and dandy when you're living with your parents, but when you get to the "real world" and realize the "promises of adulthood" are reserved for those so privileged to have them, it becomes a bit more apparent.


Hi. :)
I live in the real world; my parents moved away a couple of months back, so I now have all those adult responsibilities including bills and stuff.
My impairments are clearly there, and yes, they do cause difficulty, but I don't see that as making me a lesser being.


Maybe you don't have particularly high expectations?

See, there's this .... well, let's call it "Ideal person" that you have in mind that seems to be at least as great as your average peer. When there's a significant mismatch between this ideal and your actual self, and this ideal is easily obtainable for the average peer given they had the ambition and dedication, it kind of makes you feel 'less' than them because they can do what you can't. You know?


Actually, I do have high expectations career-wise; I'm planning on being a professor in my area of study.
I am behind my age peers in that area, as at present I only have part-time work. However, I do have a plan to get where I need to be.
I don't think that life is a race to get as much money as possible as young as possible.
Socially I just don't care; I'd be very isolated if it weren't for my work and orchestra, but I'm not lonely, and if other people have a problem with my lack of socialising, it's their problem.
I've got hygiene and such sorted out.
Have I missed anything important?

The "Ideal Person"... I'm not sure it's that simple, nor am I sure that I'd classify the Ideal Person as the average person.
I'm better than the average person at some things: I'm smarter, my memory is better, I learn more quickly, I'm more talented, more creative, better educated, I have a job that's more enjoyable...
On the other hand, they are better socially, more organised, better at generalising learned information to new situations, more flexible, they have a job that makes more money...
and it just so happens that their particular skill set makes it easier to fit into a world that's designed for people with their skill set.

I think there may be partly a semantic issue here: I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that you may be using "lesser" simply as "having fewer skills in particular areas", whereas many people, myself included, in a more intangible, even a moral sense.
I'm looking for a dictionary definition that will explain what I mean...
Here we are, from http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... ish/lesser

Quote:
a lesser man/woman/person
someone who is not as good or as moral as someone else
A lesser man wouldn’t have admitted he was wrong.
Thesaurus entry for this meaning of lesser
the lesser of two evils


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Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
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-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


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08 Nov 2011, 10:15 pm

swbluto wrote:
What are you talking about? I embrace my autism fully and I personally don't think there's anything "wrong with it", but I keep looking at the way that many neurotypicals look at it and it does seem to make sense, especially when I observe these differences between myself and other NTs and aspies and other NTs.


Are you back to being on the AS side of the fence now? Bully for you!

And, as a fully accepting, and somewhat informed member of the tribe I also assume you are fully aware of the use of the word 'spectrum' and all that it entails... everybody has a little bit of autism in them and everyone also has a little bit of NT in them - everyones individual mileage may vary.

Seriously, trying to play semantics on this particular board is kinda low.



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08 Nov 2011, 10:27 pm

draelynn wrote:
swbluto wrote:
What are you talking about? I embrace my autism fully and I personally don't think there's anything "wrong with it", but I keep looking at the way that many neurotypicals look at it and it does seem to make sense, especially when I observe these differences between myself and other NTs and aspies and other NTs.


Are you back to being on the AS side of the fence now? Bully for you!

And, as a fully accepting, and somewhat informed member of the tribe I also assume you are fully aware of the use of the word 'spectrum' and all that it entails... everybody has a little bit of autism in them and everyone also has a little bit of NT in them - everyones individual mileage may vary.

Seriously, trying to play semantics on this particular board is kinda low.


Hey, I just had a personal revelation today - 2 of them to be exact! I'll just copy and paste my journal entries:

Quote:
Shortly after opening a bunch of links related to threads about "fear of becoming schizophrenic" and "prodrome schizophrenic symptoms", I clicked on a youtube video and the author put the set of letters 'asd' into the description box. I thought...

WOAH, it's a sign! That stands for Autism Spectrum Disorder and it's god's way of telling me that I'm currently on the wrong path.


And

Quote:
went to the barber and got a hair cut! And, I had the rare opportunity to observe my facial expressions while I was talking and... OH, dude, my facial expressions showed the same kind of "concerned micro-facial expressions" as that guy on that autism speaks TV episode, which was interesting, because I wasn't concerned at all. I'm probably AS, then!


So, I'm pretty sure of it now.