AS more prevalent in males?

Post Reply New Topic

The RDOS results are interesting, but I'm not sure if those are to be believed. (I'm not sure I'd trust any results though ) If it is a 1:1 ratio, it would certainly be interesting.


And that it does seem to manifest differently between men and women (that's another thing, why is it always a boy/girl thing? We don't all vanish when we become adults. I mean what, do they think we don't live that long? We all commit suicide on our 18th birthday? But that's another rant) makes it hard to say things like that it's equal between the genders. In many ways, on the surface it does look like it's 'worse' for men.

But then, there are a lot of things that are less measurable, and less tangible. Female socialization can often be far more subtle.

Maybe Female Biology itself has some affect, that 'lessens' the severity. Maybe socialization causes the brain to adapt in such a way that things aren't as bad. Maybe it is, but no one has noticed.

I'm not making any judgements about things. But the way that men and women think differently is something that interests me. More so when it comes to Autistic conditions. And there ARE differences. (They've done MRIs. Which also is one of the reasons Autistic Women are said to have more male like brains)


So, added all up? I can't say which gender has it 'worse'. I just accept that in general, it's pretty bleak for everyone.

I definitely agree with this. Socialization, gossip, 'girlie chats'... they're demanded of women. I think a man who wasn't particularly social would be seen, providing he didn't do anything outlandishly strange, as just quiet or very work-orientated. Not being social is absolutely unacceptable for a woman.

Simon Baron-Cohen's book was called The Essential Difference: Male and Female Brains and the Truth about Autism. To be honest I wasn't that thrilled. In my mind I think hormones potentially play a role because they play a role in normal foetal cognitive development and there does seem to be a preponderance of female auties who act/feel more tomboyish or even downright butch. But Baron-Cohen is no biologist and sometimes it seems like he takes metaphoric liberties before they are deserved.

I'm not sure this "male brain" isn't actually just a coincidence in some respects because in nonautistic male and female brains, the female's brain tends to have greater connectivity and overall cognitive coordination (i.e., they're better neural multitaskers) while males, in general, tend to be worse at this. Males and females do have different brains, anatomically and neurochemically.

The same is seen in autism where we are really sh***y multitaskers. However, I am not certain that the reason nonautistic males are more often worse multitaskers and that autistics are crappy multitaskers are for the same neuroanatomical/chemical reason. It is possible only the outcomes are similar, but not the root cause. In which case, autism would only be a "pseudo-male brain".

That's true, men have less social burdens upon them and we are more capable of doing things alone, like walking alone in dark places, moving heavy stuff, etc. .... but... in my real world experience, aspie women have more social skills than aspie men, they find it easier to give eye contact, to chit-chat, etc. They are expected to do more, but they are also better prepared for that, so it balances out. Us males really look pathetic compared to females when it comes to socializing, i've seen it.

Quoted that for absolute truth. At least where I come from. And it literally has and does make me sick. I better stop typing now or this thread will end up a 24 year old RANT.

The "extreme male brain" theory...

"Feminine" traits are the opposite of Aspie traits, and thus cancel out, causing a less severe form of autism in the female, or causing a person who would be autistic not to be autistic at all.

This would have to refer only to genetic feminine traits, though; not to socially-assigned traits (such as not walking alone in the dark). Female brains are more wired to communicate, because historically we have been the ones to raise children, a task in which communication is needed. Specifically, females are more verbal and more emotionally responsive... Males communicate more by doing things than by saying them. I suppose that male+Aspie could be more of a problem than female+Aspie, just because the traits kind of stack up.

Female Aspies do have it easier thanks to society's expectations; female Aspies are more likely to be "adopted" by NT friends who want to make the Aspie "normal", teach her how things are done, etc., which is annoying but probably not emotionally damaging. Female Aspies are more likely to be avoided than abused by peers (and be oblivious to being ignored, while deep in a special interest)... It's more acceptable to be "a tomboy" than to be "a nerd"... Girls who don't have sex (either due to being asexual or being socially awkward) are seen in a more positive light than guys who don't have sex... Girls tend to be quieter; and meltdowns are more likely to be nonviolent, coming in the form of crying fits rather than all-out tantrums...

All in all, I'm lucky to be female. There are most likely things that "stack up" with being female, the way AS does with being male; but if I'm going to be an Aspie, I'm better off with my two X chromosomes. Had I been male, I might have been fully autistic... But had I been male, I might have had truly amazing talents, rather than just being moderately good at math and science... But I would've had it much worse from society, too. It's a trade, I guess.

A little more from Aspie-quiz (diagnosed AS and autism):

Version 7:
Male, autism, 40 of 1580 (2.5%)
Female, autism, 36 of 1362 (2.6%)
Ratio: 0.96:1

Male, AS, 139 of 1580 (8.8%)
Female, AS, 115 of 1362 (8.4%)
Ratio: 1.05:1

Version 6:
Male, autism, 51 of 2344 (2.2%)
Female, autism, 28 of 2351 (1.2%)
Ratio: 1.83:1

Male, AS, 171 of 2344 (7.3%)
Female, AS, 111 of 2351 (4.7%)
Ratio: 1.55:1

So, in version 6, there is indeed quite a difference
in diagnosed rate of females but not in version 7.

It should be pointed out that it is very likely that
the lower functioning end is most likely not taking
the quiz, and therefore the gender ratio for this group
isn't reliable.

Essentially, the lower functioning individuals you study,
the higher will the gender ration be. That's why proponents
of this view often site studies of severely mentally ret*d
autistics. It is very possible there is a 4:1 ratio for those, but
this changes to a 1:1 ratio for the higher functioning end of
the spectrum.

Sidenote: I don't think Autism and/or AS is completely a "extreme of the main brain" thing. I've met aspies locally who have quite a few feminine traits, after getting to know them...

I beg to differ, autism affects girls more profoundly than it does boys, it's just more prevalent amongst males because they have the sex chromosomes XY, which make them more likely to have genetic abnormalities than females that have XX chromosomes.

You want to appreciate some of the finer distinctions between different symptom / manifestations of autism?
Then check out this web site http://whitterer-autism.blogspot.com
and get back to me. Cheers

Some people are listing personal issues as general rules. That's a problem. Callista, you are describing something that I never heard of before you. With NTs and autistics, I've never seen anyone do this adopt-a-nerd to help them become normal or stylish. I've seen fictionalized versions of this where bullies do it as a joke/prank. (afternoon special)

I don't think autistic males or autistic females have it worse than the other. People interpret differently, but I doubt that means one is lessor.
My husband and I both have Aspie traits (he was developmentally delayed, I was a social pariah). He is able to channel his differences into strengths where my focuses are considered weird, not appropriate for a woman and I don't network like other women do. Men can succeed in work without being so social, women cannot.

Female aspies do get "adopted" every so often.

It rarely doesnt end with ugliness when the NTs realize they arent getting anywhere and its not as easy as they thought.

It also tends to tick off the aspie. Who likes being pitied for being themselves and forcibly changed to suit other peoples expectations?

In addition to being an Aspie, I am a stutterer. Stuttering is also found about 3-4 times as often in males as in females. I think it's pretty clear that it's genetics at least in my case.

What this thread brought up for me is that I remember in gradeschool I had a strong feeling of wishing I had been born as a female rather than as a male. Since I didn't feel very adept at initiating social contact, I wished I could be a female where the social contact (at least from males) would come without my having to initiate it.

Over time that went away and I'm now glad I am a male, with the worldliness to make my way in life rather than depend on someone else for my livelihood, as I might have if I had been born a female Aspie. I'm not saying all females are dependant on males, but I think I would have been if I was born female.

I beg the differ in return. ASDs are multigene conditions. If a difference in severity between sexes were accounted for by a simple X or Y, it is logical that this would have been discovered by now. Also, if "imperative" ASD genes were located on the X or Y chromosomes, I believe this would also have been accounted for by now. So far to my understanding, in numerous studies, every single chromosome has been implicated at one time or another as being "linked" with autistic spectrum disorders.

http://projects.tcag.ca/autism/

A difference in severity would more likely reflect natural neurocognitive profiles associated with males v. females. Nonautistic females are more classically socially fluent. It is possible that female autistics reflect a similiar preferential cognitive development towards socializing moreso than males. Or are more equipped with certain cognitive abilities which in turn facilitate social "blending". (This is a generalization at most. There's plenty of individuals to contradict this on both sides.)

Tradionally, the literature reports that females with Autistic Disorder are affected more profoundly. But I have learned not to take ASD literature at face value. If this is where you are getting your information, I recommend to take the same precaution.

Another good observation. Although the range of interests and obsessions of AS people is amazingly wide, I think many of them are more typical of or acceptable for men than women. There are certain interests which a female is 'expected' to have - clothes, shopping, gossiping, etc. - and if she has little or no interest in them (and instead has neutral or 'male' interests) she's going to be totally excluded.

Yeah that usually doesnt go over well.

"Want to go shopping with us after work?"
"Nah Ive got a new motherboard I want to install in my computer"
*awkward silence and strange looks*