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squier
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18 Nov 2006, 6:24 pm

ignore my previous post, i thought about it and i have three ways you could approach the question we are facing

1} we could veiw the notion of disabilities as just a word, a label. a disabilty would normally be defined as a lack of some physical feature or ability, but for that person, there is no lack, because there is nothing to lack if that something isn't there. kind of hard to follow, bu if you think about it hard enough, it makes sence.

2} a disability has to be definate. AS is to mild

3} disabilities are physical, AS is only a difference in the processing center of the brain, a mere differenciation in programming


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Mnemosyne
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18 Nov 2006, 7:31 pm

It depends on how it affects you. Those who have it mildly, generally aren't disabled by it. People who have a very pronounced case of it can be disabled by it.



Zeno
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18 Nov 2006, 7:31 pm

The problem with labeling AS a disability is that it just does not seem that way. Everything about the Aspie looks normal and the social difficulties express themselves as bad behavior. Few NTs would accept that AS is a disability; especially when you are an adult. A child with AS is considered someone with special needs. A grown up with AS is just considered a constant source of irritation.

Looked at individually, every case of AS raises the question why are you not trying harder to fit in. Just do not do those annoying things and people will accept you. Practically all Aspies get told this. Looked at as a group and the case starts to change dramatically. One can discern a certain pattern of behavior and a certain pattern of abuse that is directed towards the Aspie. Indeed, perhaps one of the most definitive aspects of AS is how people choose to treat that individual.

If we could raise the awareness of AS, then it need not be a disability. But that is a long hard road that despite all the publicity given to AS we have not even begun to take the first steps. Even if we did not call it a disability, judging by what gets posted here on this forum, it seems obvious that Aspies do need help.



CockneyRebel
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19 Nov 2006, 1:11 am

Do I need help?



krex
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19 Nov 2006, 1:43 am

I think I would have to agree that it depends on where you are on the spectrum and what area it effects you.We all have different issues and traits and the way they present.We all have different "gifts" and some of us have few of these to compensate or are never in the right environment to express them.I dont consider myself "severly effected" but I have spent 43 years struggling.Nothing has come easy for me.I really dont mean to complain but I have been suicidal most of my life....I dont think I would have been if not for the issues that AS presented(or society's reaction to them or my own lack of knowledge of what was causing them).

People can play psychological semantics with the word "disability" but for me it is obvious traits I have make it much more difficult to achieve the same thing as someone else with the same (or less) intelligence.Thats my reality.It doesnt mean I have given up trying new things or learning new skills,but the very "me"ness of me is a disability in this society regardless of whether the traits are positive to me or not.So please,dont "candy coat" this as just "different",our differences are discriminated against....and if you dont believe it...you havent been in the "work force" very long or have gifts that fit into a work force niche....lucky you.


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Mnemosyne
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19 Nov 2006, 1:48 am

squier wrote:

3} disabilities are physical, AS is only a difference in the processing center of the brain, a mere differenciation in programming


This is a common misconception. Disabilities can be "in the brain." Mental retardation is a disability. "Low-functioning autism" is definitely a disability. If you were schizophrenic and hallucinating all the time, you'd be pretty disabled by that. It's hard to hold a job when you're completely convinced that Satan himself is sitting at the desk next to you.



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19 Nov 2006, 2:00 am

Mnemosyne wrote:
squier wrote:

3} disabilities are physical, AS is only a difference in the processing center of the brain, a mere differenciation in programming


This is a common misconception. Disabilities can be "in the brain." Mental retardation is a disability. "Low-functioning autism" is definitely a disability. If you were schizophrenic and hallucinating all the time, you'd be pretty disabled by that. It's hard to hold a job when you're completely convinced that Satan himself is sitting at the desk next to you.


You have the right to be insane as long as your madness harms no one else.


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Eschew_Obfuscation
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19 Nov 2006, 2:56 am

krex wrote:
I think I would have to agree that it depends on where you are on the spectrum and what area it effects you.We all have different issues and traits and the way they present.We all have different "gifts" and some of us have few of these to compensate or are never in the right environment to express them.I dont consider myself "severly effected" but I have spent 43 years struggling.Nothing has come easy for me.I really dont mean to complain but I have been suicidal most of my life....I dont think I would have been if not for the issues that AS presented(or society's reaction to them or my own lack of knowledge of what was causing them).

People can play psychological semantics with the word "disability" but for me it is obvious traits I have make it much more difficult to achieve the same thing as someone else with the same (or less) intelligence.Thats my reality.It doesnt mean I have given up trying new things or learning new skills,but the very "me"ness of me is a disability in this society regardless of whether the traits are positive to me or not.So please,dont "candy coat" this as just "different",our differences are discriminated against....and if you dont believe it...you havent been in the "work force" very long or have gifts that fit into a work force niche....lucky you.


But by that definition it would have been a disability to be black before the civil rights movement.

But it definitely does cause problems in general society. So sort of, since we are "less able" to do some things. But then NTs are less able than us to do certain other things. Looks like a "the majority is always sane" case to me.



Who_Am_I
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19 Nov 2006, 3:34 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Do I need help?



With what?


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19 Nov 2006, 4:01 am

Xenon wrote:
Consider what it would be like if most people had AS and only a small fraction were what we call NT. We'd probably come up with some fancy name for the "disability" that the NTs have because their brains work differently than the rest of us. :wink:

(I wonder how we would describe the symptoms. Should I start a new thread?)


It's been done!

The Institute for the Study of the Neurotypical

http://isnt.autistics.org/

"It is important that NT individuals make use of their abnormally developed skills, i.e. lying and deception. For instance, some occupations appropriate for NTs would be:

Used car salesman
Politician
Grifter
Building Contractor
Corporate negotiator
Three-card-Monty artist
Lawyer "



Mitch8817
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19 Nov 2006, 4:10 am

So perhaps terms such as 'disability' or 'limited' or 'disorder' when applied to a person become self-fulfilling prophesies? (if anyone gets that).

Also, perhaps Aspergers the Syndrome isn't a disability, but more of how it effects people who have it on an individual basis. Sure, were all limited in the social area, but I can function quite well there and someone else may not. So does this mean he is more disabled than me, even though we both have AS?



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19 Nov 2006, 4:38 am

I guess you would have to get more specific.

Meaning, someone could be disabled socially, but in return they might spend that time mastering an extra skill or interest, which would be another ability.

Personally I would call myself disabled only in terms of maintaining a job, everyone I've tried at requires a certain kind of social style I just can't master.

However, I happen to find physics easy and in going to attempt to study nanotechnology I should find it easier than many as my ability to focus on what I enjoy is very strong. (overwhelmingly so most the time).

Anyway.. In this case I wouldn't class it as a disability, I would call AS a spectrum, as it is, because in this way it can disable some more than others, and those that are disabled socially surely gain things in return.


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krex
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19 Nov 2006, 4:40 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
So does this mean he is more disabled than me, even though we both have AS?


The answer is ....yes.

I thought that was implied in the term "spectrum".....it is a spectrum of traits and intensity of traits.

I am very nearsighted....without my glasses,I would not be cabable of doing many of the things I do now(like driving).A person that is completely blind would be considered more disabled...they cant drive either but they also would not be able to see things close up(which I can).

How disableling As is to each of us is dependent on many factors,personal,co-morbids,environmental...


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CockneyRebel
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19 Nov 2006, 5:01 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Do I need help?



With what?


Getting my feet back on the ground.



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19 Nov 2006, 5:07 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Is it?


In some people it can be. If you can't get along with people at work and can't do any kind of multitasking, or stick up for yourself at work without getting in trouble, isn't that a disability?



Mnemosyne
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19 Nov 2006, 3:02 pm

Flagg wrote:

You have the right to be insane as long as your madness harms no one else.


You DO have the right, but that doesn't make you not disabled. You have the right to have no arms and no legs, but that doesn't mean that someone without arms and legs isn't disabled.