DSM5 Final Recommendations

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OddDuckNash99
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25 Jul 2012, 8:20 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:

I wish they would include NVLD in this edition of the DSM. They could put it under neurodevelopmental disorders along with ADHD and ASD......it'd be perfect.

Don't even get me started on how offensive I find the term "neurodevelopmental disorder"... :lol:

But in response to your post, the main reason they haven't added NVLD is because there are still too many "what-ifs" about it. And why is that? Because nobody is taking the time to properly sort out the similarities and differences between NVLD and Asperger's. And will that research be done once Asperger's is stricken from the list of diagnoses? Of course not. :roll:

Is my Asperger's presentation a severe form of NVLD, not a part of the autism spectrum? Are both conditions really separate and I have NVLD as a comorbidity? These are the things that need answered but are going to keep going UNanswered once AS is removed. Yeah, they added in sensory issues to the diagnosis, but at what cost?

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nominalist
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25 Jul 2012, 8:31 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

Because nobody is taking the time to properly sort out the similarities and differences between NVLD and Asperger's.

Some people have argued that NVLD is AS seen through a different lens.

Both diagnoses were developed separately:

Quote:

There is clearly a great deal of overlap between Asperger’s Disorder (AD) and Nonverbal Learning Disabilities (NVLD) – so much so that it is possible that the symptoms of each diagnosis describe the same group of children from different perspectives, AD from either a psychiatric/behavioral perspective, and NVLD from a neuropsychological perspective. The specific conventions of these diagnoses may lead to a somewhat different group of children meeting diagnostic criteria, but it is not clear that this reflects something “true” in nature. That is, it may only be convention that separates these two groups....

Studies conducted by the Yale Child-Study Group suggest that up to 80% of children who meet the criteria for AD also have NVLD. While there are no studies on overlap in the other direction, most likely children with the more severe forms of NVLD also have AD. Children from both groups are socially awkward and pay over-attention to detail and parts, while missing main themes or underlying principles.

http://www.nldline.com/dinklage.htm

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daydreamer84
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25 Jul 2012, 8:40 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

daydreamer84 wrote:

I wish they would include NVLD in this edition of the DSM. They could put it under neurodevelopmental disorders along with ADHD and ASD......it'd be perfect.

Don't even get me started on how offensive I find the term "neurodevelopmental disorder"... :lol:

Interesting......why do you find neurodevelopmental disorder offensive? What do you think they should do with/call the category?

I don't see why they can't just research the distinctions between "high functioning ASD" OR "ASD without language delay" and NVLD. How does changing the name prevent them from researching it? I'm also diagnosed with both, and I think it's really important to learn more about NVLD and how to help people with it.

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25 Jul 2012, 8:44 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

redrobin62 wrote:

Is it in stone that the Asperger's terminology will be null and void in December?

Even if it's out of the DSM-5, it's not like I'm going to stop saying I have Asperger's Syndrome! Just because it's out of the DSM doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I also have Nonverbal Learning Disorder, which has never been included in the DSM. But does that mean I don't have it? Certainly not.

I posted this elsewhere:

From John Elder Robison's facebook page (link):

Quote:

In this photo from Tuesday's IACC meeting, Dr. Susan Swedo tells committee members about the latest developments in the DSM 5 autism revision process. She said preliminary tests of DSM 4 vs DSM 5 diagnostic criteria actually showed DSM 5 diagnosing more people as autistic.

That's opposite what was feared this spring, and very reassuring. She stressed that one of the group's criteria was that no one should fear "losing their diagnosis." When the DSM 5 criteria were used to evaluate a pool of hundreds of people, the new criteria picked up virtually all the people who had DSM 4 diagnoses and a few others besides.

She said the alarming news this spring was speculation based on old data, and the goal had never been to "make diagnosis harder."

She also confirmed that Asperger's and PDD NOS will remain as descriptors within the Autism Spectrum diagnosis. So a person who says he has Asperger's today will not lose that descriptor.

nominalist
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25 Jul 2012, 8:44 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:

I don't see why they can't just research the distinctions between "high functioning ASD" OR "ASD without language delay" and NVLD. How does changing the name prevent them from researching it? I'm also diagnosed with both, and I think it's really important to learn more about NVLD and how to help people with it.

From a linguistic perspective, the term "high functioning" is offensive to some people. If there are high-functioning Autists, there must be low-functioning Autists, as well.

All Autists, no matter where we fall on the spectrum, can function well in some areas and not in others.

daydreamer84
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25 Jul 2012, 9:02 pm

nominalist wrote:

daydreamer84 wrote:

Okay well I'm sorry for using the term then..........I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just meant that if someone wanted to research AS and compare it to NVLD but AS was no longer an official diagnosis and was now part of ASD's then couldn't they just study "people with ASD's with IQ's over 70 and no language delay"?

OddDuckNash99
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25 Jul 2012, 9:08 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:

Interesting......why do you find neurodevelopmental disorder offensive? What do you think they should do with/call the category?

I think they should call the category what it is called in the DSM-IV: "disorders beginning in childhood." I do not find the term "neurodevelopmental disorder" offensive for ME. I find it offensive for those who are NOT included in the category. In my opinion, it is very wrong to label childhood disorders like ASDs or Tourette's or ADHD as neurodevelopmental disorders and not ALL neuropsychiatric disorders as such. I feel that this is just helping keep the stigma that "mental illnesses" like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder are not also created by problems with the development of the brain. Just because the "psychiatric disorders" don't tend to show themselves until late adolescence/early adulthood doesn't mean that they are any less neurodevelopmental disorders.

There is lots of evidence that points to the full "turn-on" of the prefrontal cortex in the late teens through early 20s as being the reason why this is the age we start to see manifestations of neuropsychiatric disorders, particularly the psychoses. Those individuals were born with the genes and abnormal neurocircuitry for their disorders, too. They just show themselves at a different developmental period. I don't like this divide of "autism is a neurological disorder, not a psychiatric disorder," and vice versa. I favor the term "neuropsychiatric disorder," because all DSM diagnoses have both a neurological component and a psychiatric component. If that weren't true, then why is it published by the American Psychological Association?

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Last edited by OddDuckNash99 on 25 Jul 2012, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

daydreamer84
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25 Jul 2012, 9:16 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

daydreamer84 wrote:

Interesting......why do you find neurodevelopmental disorder offensive? What do you think they should do with/call the category?

I think they should call the category what it is called in the DSM-IV: "disorders beginning in childhood." I do not find the term "neurodevelopmental disorder" offensive for ME. I find it offensive for those who are NOT included in the category. In my opinion, it is very wrong to label childhood disorders like ASDs or Tourette's or ADHD as neurodevelopmental disorders and not ALL neuropsychiatric disorders. I feel that this is just helping keep the stigma that like "mental illnesses" like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder are not also created by problems with the development of the brain. Just because the "psychiatric disorders" don't tend to show themselves until late adolescence/early adulthood doesn't mean that they are any less neurodevelopmental disorders.

There is lots of evidence that points to the full "turn-on" of the prefrontal cortex in the late teens through early 20s as being the reason why this is the age we start to see manifestations of neuropsychiatric disorders, particularly the psychoses. Those individuals were born with the genes and abnormal neurocircuitry for their disorders, too. They just show themselves at a different developmental period. I don't like this divide of "autism is a neurological disorder, not a psychiatric disorder," and vice versa. I favor the term "neuropsychiatric disorder," because all DSM diagnoses have both a neurological component and a psychiatric component. If that weren't true, then why is it published by the American Psychological Association?

Okay ,this makes a lot of sense............I agree with you. It's true that Psychoses and other mental illnesses are also disorders of development and reducing the stigma of mental illness is quite important.

Tuttle
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25 Jul 2012, 9:38 pm

Quote:

She also confirmed that Asperger's and PDD NOS will remain as descriptors within the Autism Spectrum diagnosis. So a person who says he has Asperger's today will not lose that descriptor.

[/quote]

This upsets me

I want to lose that descriptor. I want to just go to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I want to be just Autistic, not "Asperger's". It's not informative.

Oh well.

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25 Jul 2012, 9:55 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:

You didn't offend me. :lol:

I was just making a point.

nominalist
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25 Jul 2012, 9:56 pm

Tuttle wrote:

This upsets me

I want to lose that descriptor. I want to just go to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I want to be just Autistic, not "Asperger's". It's not informative.

I don't like the term "Asperger's" either. I also prefer "Autism Spectrum Disorder."

I think what the other poster meant is that you will not lose the diagnosis, not that the name won't change.

OddDuckNash99
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25 Jul 2012, 10:02 pm

nominalist wrote:

I don't like the term "Asperger's" either. I also prefer "Autism Spectrum Disorder."

I just hope nobody forgets Hans Asperger's work if the name gets removed. It isn't fair that he didn't get anything named after him until 1994, and now, it might get taken away again. And it's also not fair that Kanner doesn't have a label named for his discoveries but Asperger does.

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nominalist
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25 Jul 2012, 10:07 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

The term "Asperger's" was coined by Lorna Wing. She later regretted naming it after him. She said that she wished she had called it Autism from the beginning.

Verdandi
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25 Jul 2012, 10:27 pm

Tuttle wrote:

This upsets me

I want to lose that descriptor. I want to just go to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I want to be just Autistic, not "Asperger's". It's not informative.

Oh well.

I don't think the descriptors are mandatory. I don't really care for it either, and I would prefer to drop it asap.

Tuttle
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25 Jul 2012, 10:35 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Tuttle wrote:

This upsets me

I want to lose that descriptor. I want to just go to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I want to be just Autistic, not "Asperger's". It's not informative.

Oh well.

I don't think the descriptors are mandatory. I don't really care for it either, and I would prefer to drop it asap.

Optional, if they fit particularly well, but not mandatory I could support. I just want to drop mine ASAP because its not very useful.

Verdandi
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25 Jul 2012, 10:38 pm

There won't be any diagnostic code for Asperger's or PDD-NOS, only ASD.

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