Why do NTs always have the upper hand in this case?

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This has happened a lot to me before, I've been called elitist, depressing, something's wrong with me, a spoiled brat, a loser with too much gravitas attached to stuff, lots of things. And in cases where it's not direct talking, but over the internet, and everyone on sites like io9 tend to fall into the same path, I'm rambling now.

Sometimes it doesn't really matter who is right and who is wrong, but the way you present yourself. When people see a pair arguing, and one of them looks all emotional and bothered and as if he was freaking out, and the other one looks more quiet and in control, they will assume negative things about the first, like he's immature, impulsive, likes to make shows in front of everyone, etc. They will assume that the other one is more patient, reasonable, mature. If your brother stands there with an horrified expression, it is a very good way to convey, not verbally, that he believes you're overreacting, and you should calm down, and that he wishes you to stop. He doesn't convey that only to you, but to all onlookers. And if they don't know either of you, or what are you guys arguing about, but they see the signals I mentioned, I'm sorry to tell you this but they will probably take your brother's side.

I don't know how it is there, but around here when someone lashes out and puts on a show, that someone is seen negatively, and urged to lower his voice and calm down by all who know him, because it is seen as embarassing. Other than that, nobody, strangers or otherwise, chims in into someone else's fight unless they really want to support one of them, or have a beef against the other. And as you might guess, who's right and who's wrong doesn't really play a part either.

Oh, yeah! I was thinking about this today.

Back in college, a woman sitting next to me never read the material for the day. I know there is a double meaning between siding with someone. I'll explain why. Our professer had us answer questions while working with a small group of people. The answer to the professors question had to do with religion, whereas a women in my group had an answer she pulled straight out from her a**. Long story short, her answer was the opposite of mine, which I told my CORRECT answer to our group. I knew it was right, and I knew hers was wrong. Even though mine was correct and she knew it, she and another girl argued with me, though they both knew mine was correct. They did it because they did not like me, and their distaste for me was extremely apparent due to one of the woman bullying me (even to go as far as to say I smell and whatnot).

You can have all the facts in the world, it's how you deliver them.

None of the Aspies I know seem smug, arrogant or know-it-all-ish. Maybe the part of my brain that detects smug people doesn't work.

Or maybe you know Aspies who are not smug, arrogant, or know-it-all-ish!

Keep this in mind when dealing with NT's, everything they think, believe, or feel is instilled in them and accepted as "truth" via confirmation through herd approval. They would never out themselves from the herd regardless of any mythical sense of honor or dignity. When it comes to arguing, they don't argue to prove who's right, they argue to win and will do whatever mental gymnastics are required to reinforce their beliefs, which are really just popular opinion accepted by the herd. They are a pitiful lot, we would all be better off without them. Don't trust them, ever.

Yer, all the time. It seems the NT is always doing the right thing and I am not, even though they are being an a***hole and breaking social rules and I'm being meek and innocent, it's still always the same crap. (Not saying NTs are always a***holes, I can be an a***hole too, but I'm talking about situations where I am actually not being one for once).

It's like on an Autism documentary I watched a few months ago, where some teenagers were bullying a Autistic teenage boy, and the Autistic teenage boy got so upset that he yelled something back to them what wasn't half as nasty as what they were mouthing to him, and he had every right to stand up for himself too, but he's the one who got into trouble for saying that, even though the teacher was aware of what the bullies did. The teacher just said, ''how do you think those girls are feeling after you said that to them?!'' and if I was the Autistic boy I would have went, ''f**k how they're feeling - they're the ones who were bullying me and hurting MY feelings for no reason, and if they hadn't of bullied me in the first place then I wouldn't have said that to them, I would've been friends.''

Also here's another example of what happened in my house before:-

An NT is in the shower in the morning. An Aspie has not long got up and has got a bus to catch in less than 20 minutes and needs to use the toilet but is now going to be late. NT.2 says to the Aspie, ''well you should have got up earlier, so you would have got in there first, then you wouldn't be late!''

An Aspie is in the shower in the morning. An NT has not long got up and has a bus to catch in less than 20 minutes and needs to use the toilet but is now going to be late. NT.2 bangs on the bathroom door and says to the Aspie, ''can you come out for a minute, NT.1 needs to use the toilet otherwise he will be late for his bus.''

See the pattern?

There was a situation 6 years ago when my brother punched me in the face infront of his friend. i looked at my brothers friend too signal how wrong my brothers actions were but my bro's friend just looked confused at me like my brother did nothing wrong. Its like my brother can get away with behaving badly towards me. i think perhaps the method is not too overeact when my brother does something bad too me so others will be on my side.

do you think that is unfair?

Both for the shower example and the punch example, the third party's social ties with the one who is wronging you take precedence over who's actually right or wrong. People stick up to their friends. I don't openly antagonize my friends either, I always tell them my concerns, but in private, because making them lose face would be a way of betrayal. I don't defend them when they are wrong though, and they know better than ask me for my opinion in public if I think they are wrong, because then it's free game . I've become somewhat of a mediator in my group of friends because of that.

Giving it more thought, the first case specially strikes me as deeply unfair. Inconsistency is the easiest way to get the upper hand in an argument thought, as calling someone's double standards out, so I do wonder how would they have the nerve to act like that, and how would you let them, as well.

A couple of years ago, I was on an art course and there was a lady in my class, who without a doubt had Aspergers, although at her age I doubt she knew or had a diagnosis. Another student had told me she thought she was annoying and that made me sad. One of the other students was starting up her own business, painting murals on kids' bedroom walls. She started to speak about Disney characters and how she was considering painting those. The lady with AS told her about the dangers of getting into that, without getting permission from Disney (Disney won't like you using their characters, etc). She was absolutely correct and I agreed. However, I felt like the others were looking at her as if she was being overly dramatic, without due cause. She was just warning the woman to be careful, in case of lawsuits. As she wasn't a friend, I doubt she was overly concerned for her. But, her facial expressions were quite exaggerated and perhaps they thought the woman's thoughts matched these expressions. We were all adults, so no-one poked fun of her, but I can guess what they were thinking and what they would have said, under different circumstances.

I experienced similar attitudes as a child and younger adult, which resulted in everyone looking at me like I was daft and laughing. I'm pretty adept at curtailing my dramatics these days and sometimes use it for humour instead.

This issue of who gets backed up and who doesn't took me many years to decipher, years of constant analysing till I had smoke coming out of my brain. It's something I suffered from very much all my life, for almost 5 decades, till I was able to decode it.

It's very long to explain, but to try and put it in a nutshell: it doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong - ever. What makes NTs side with one or the other is what is in it for THEM. Such a complex combination ensues from the WIIFM ("what's in it for me") of each of the participants, that it often creates an entangled web where no one knows anymore what's truth and what isn't. This spiderweb is called "Politics".

Aspies go ahead blindly with the truth, unknowing about the existence and importance of politics and then are surprised they are the one blamed of being wrong / inappropriate. This used to be me.

In your example of the alcohol: if you're agreeing to do an illegal act for your brother without charging anything in return or setting some clear, strong boundaries on the illegal actions you're willing to do, you're teaching him and his friends that they can use and abuse you freely. Therefore: the moment you start threatening to stop the bonanza (your complaints about going back and forth to the store), tell me: what's the friends' WIIFM? To back you up so you'll wisen up and they'll lose the bonanza, or to back up your brother and thus continue enjoying your free services?

Maybe that's because we Aspies value justice and logic more than most NTs.

I think NTs put more value on being polite and social than on actually being "right". So they think it's impolite to insist on your point of view, even if it is indeed right.

Mummy_of_Peanut, that Aspie lady would've been me, for almost 50 years. Now I know better than carelessly punch someone's pink bubble when I'm outnumbered or outpowered by those who are doing the opposite, i.e. encouraging the idea.

Probably, since they were all on a mission to give encouragement, they resented someone spoiling it with a back-to-Earth call. The fact that she talked in a very eloquent way that made her hard to ignore only added fuel to the fire maybe, but wasn't the cause of the problem.

An NT would've instinctively taken the atmosphere into account and presented her idea in a positive tone like: "Yes, I think it's a great idea to paint Disney characters!! ! The investment in copyright fees is CERTAINLY worth it, because I'm sure you'll make a fortune!"

(Disney copyright is so expensive, by the way, that most new entrepeneurs can't afford it).

If your friend stabbed an inoccent person out of the blue would you then still stick up for him?

it depends on the friend either I would stick up for them if I really thought that they deserved it or I would let them rot it all depends on who my friend was and why I am supporting them. I know for a fact that I would not let my best friends rot in jail but I might let a minor friend rot.