The term disability vs. issues, differences, special needs

Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

27 Oct 2012, 6:50 pm

EsotericResearch wrote:
"inability to engage in any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment which can be expected to result in death or which has lasted or can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months. "


Sounds like the majority* of those with Asperger's to me (unemployed and living at home or in government housing). No need to mention Autism (HFA/LFA) itself.

*Outcome studies



btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

27 Oct 2012, 7:53 pm

It is fine for others to focus on the literal definitions of words and terms, whatever they like. I suck at thinking that way, so I'm going to focus on other things, like what is going on in the real world around me.

In the real world of the grade school, the junior high, or the high school in my area, autistic kids are not getting a decent education, simply because they are autistic and considered to have an overgeneralized disability that prevents them from learning anything. It is not like their strengths and weaknesses are being taken into account, and a special education plan is being created for each of them, so they need to be acknowledged as disabled to get access to these magic mushroom disability accommodations. There are no magic mushrooms. Intsead, they were diagnosed with autism, so they are automatically considered to be deficient in intellectual funcitoning 4evar and evar and evar, so they are considered to be incapable of learning, unless they can show themselves to be high-functioning, verbal, IQ-average, and capable of being mainstreamed. If you are not all of these, then you are farked in the school system here. If you suck at taking IQ tests or standardized tests, then you get a nice shiny MR label to go with your autism on your school records, and you are really farking farked in that case.

Why are you not mainstreamed? Oh yes, that must be because you are too intellectually disabled and therefore incapable of learning. If you can't learn from spoken lessons, then you are farked. You are assumed to not be able to learn at all. If you get frustrated due to your lack of communication skills or one of your rigidity issues, then you are farked. You are not classroom-ready due to your horrible behaviors. Oh look at the autistic kid acting out like a little monkey, let's all stand around and stare. I am not talking about kids with profound autism and/or severe mental retardation. I am talking about a regular autistic kid, not an outlier. Some of the kids who are verbal and high-functioning but still not mainstreamed also end up learning nothing in the special education classroom. The teachers and students sit around all day watching YouTube videos. One Aspie kid who did a computer project on his own showed it to his teachers and was still not acknowledged as being capable, just because he is there, disabled and incapable in the special education classroom. Oh break me off a piece of that kit kat bar, you couldn't possibly have done that, you have Asperger's, and you can't do stuff like that, don't you know that?



littlelily613
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,608
Location: Canada

27 Oct 2012, 8:03 pm

EsotericResearch wrote:
Note, that I was saying that one can be autistic and have disability, or not have disability.


Note how I said that for the super-mild, it might be more of a "difference" than a disability. Well, you cannot take the term away for the rest of us that DO have a disability to some extent or another. If you don't want to be associated with the disability that autism causes for the vast majority of us, why not just refrain from telling people you have it. I guess we can't please everyone, but it is not fair to those that autism affects most to take away the fact that it IS a disability. If you barely even notice you have it due to your lack of disability, then there really is no point in making sure everyone knows you have it, IMO.


_________________
Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


littlelily613
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,608
Location: Canada

27 Oct 2012, 8:04 pm

Dillogic wrote:
By definition, Asperger's Disorder is disabling by the DSM-IV-TR ("quite disabling" is a direct quote).

If you want it to be called a difference, well, why not just don't say you have it? It's a clinical entity that has overwhelming supporting evidence that says it's a disorder that is disabling.

Also, If you don't have any problems, no disability in comparison to matched peers, then how would you know you have it? Why would you be said to have it? Why would you even look it up? Why would you care at all? It doesn't make sense.


Agreed!


_________________
Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


littlelily613
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,608
Location: Canada

27 Oct 2012, 8:07 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
It is not fine for autistic children to be considered by others to be disabled and incapable.


This is where education comes in handy. Disability does not mean incapability. Instead of changing a really USEFUL word (disability), to one that could lead to problems, education should be given to those who deal with disabled people on a daily basis to show that disabled people are completely capable, just sometimes in a different way. This is why I said, the only helpful solution would be education, not changing accurately descriptive language to something ambiguous.


_________________
Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


littlelily613
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,608
Location: Canada

27 Oct 2012, 8:09 pm

I will also add that, while I am considered by the Canadian and provincial governments to be DISABLED (thus, making me eligible for disability bursaries and other services when I am in school---things I would not be eligible for if I was simply "different"), and while I am considered DISABLED by the university I attend, I am in NO WAY thought of as incapable. Why? Because these people have been EDUCATED as to what a disability actually means. In fact, they encourage me to step beyond what I even think I am capable of (and they are often right!)


_________________
Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


EsotericResearch
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 390

27 Oct 2012, 11:12 pm

Dillogic wrote:

Sounds like the majority* of those with Asperger's to me (unemployed and living at home or in government housing). No need to mention Autism (HFA/LFA) itself.

*Outcome studies


May I ask which outcome studies, and in which society? In the US, government housing carries a reputation of being unsuitable to many Aspies/autistics - violent crime and other issues. Do you mean a group home? I have not read any studies saying that most adult autistics (not college-age or young adult) are unemployed and living with their parents, although we may find it a bit harder to get off our feet. Linkage?



Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

28 Oct 2012, 6:06 am

Links are lost (collected them when ASDs were a passing interest), but you can trust my memory regarding facts:

The highest rate of employment from all studies I've read has been 47% (US, and from a textbook that consolidates most of the studies), though most tend to be in family business or working way below their level of intelligence. This was amongst the highest of functioning with AS. Most point to less than 20% for adults with AS and other milder types of Autism. The 47% figure isn't too bad (though compare that to the normal population where it's probably higher than 90%), but as I said, it was focusing on the mildest cases, so it's not entirely accurate insofar as all of those with AS

People with AS tend to live at home with parents ("most of"), people with HFA tend to be at home or in group facilities (I think this is due to early severity and parents putting them there from the beginning due to not being able to handle them, but I'm just guessing here)

Most have few or no friends. AS tends to be about 6% in regards to marriage (textbook); this might be higher now as I recall the text was speaking of some of the first people diagnosed when the DSM-IV-TR was new (it probably shouldn't deviate too much though, as that'd point to the label broadening in comparison to its original intent). Apparently, it's a lot easier to make babies than to get married for people with ASDs (ha), but then, all people with an ASD (including subclinical) and even other mental disorders (ADHD), can possibly pass it on in the more severe forms

It's fairly disabling when you look at it objectively. You need to be clinically impaired in one of those areas above to meet the DSM-IV-TR too (the social one will be a given, and it's probably the main one kids will meet; the occupational and self-sufficiency ones are for the adults).



y-pod
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,748
Location: Canada

28 Oct 2012, 7:35 am

I didn't think "disability" have anything to do with me back in school. Even though I lead a rather anxious and disorganized life, I've always maintained straight A grades. However life after school became rather difficult. As the years go by I feel more and more different from other people my age. Increased responsibilities is the top reason for my struggles. Not to mention my stress load right now is high for even NT people.

If an aspie kid is struggling in school, real life is gonna be even harder. It doesn't get easier as you age. You might LOOK less autistic due to experience and adaptations, but inside you're still different, and living with NTs are exhausting. I don't think I have accepted it as a "disability" until the last year or two. At least I don't beat up myself for things I just can't seem to manage any more.

Having a job and your own place is great for aspies, as well as finding the right person to marry. Having children is usually not that great for aspies, though. It tend to bring out the worst problems you never know you had. I stopped having meltdowns back when I was 8, and rarely have shutdowns as I'm an articulate person. Recently I keep not wanting to see people or talk to people because of my stress level. Finally I unplugged our phone and feel a bit relieved.

Anyway my point is autism is lifelong and should be considered a disability. It hardly ever get better, usually get much more difficult as you age. I'm not looking forward to my parents in nursing home and I need to be the power of attorney for everybody. :(


_________________
AQ score: 44
Aspie mom to two autistic sons (23 & 22)


emimeni
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,065
Location: In my bed, on my laptop

28 Oct 2012, 11:20 am

Tuttle wrote:
Disability doesn't mean incapable, but that doesn't change that autistic individuals are impaired at doing major life activities which makes them disabled.

Being disabled does not mean that we cannot learn. Being disabled does not mean that we cannot have abilities that most people do not have. Being disabled doesn't mean we won't grow and improve and figure out how to live our lives.

But this isn't true for people with other sorts of disabilities either. Sure a blind person won't become sighted, but will learn how to work around being blind. An autistic person will learn how to work around being autistic and will build up coping skills and better integrate themselves into society as well.

Being disabled does not make any statements about capabilities other than significant impairment in major life activities. Communication is a major life activity, even when its not speaking. We are socially impaired at that level, even when we are capable of a lot more.

Being disabled doesn't men that you need to be on SSI. It doesn't mean that you need full time help. It doesn't mean that you'll never be employed.

It does mean that because of your impairments you should get accommodations while you are working. It does mean that you get help in various situations. It does mean those little times that when what you're capable of doesn't match what society expects, there are resources to get you help.

I am disabled. I'm not ashamed of this fact. I will not hide this fact. I will not let people tell me that being disabled is only for people who are more impaired than I am, because of the fact that I can walk and speak and explain myself.


Yes! That! ^

btbnnyr wrote:
It is fine for others to focus on the literal definitions of words and terms, whatever they like. I suck at thinking that way, so I'm going to focus on other things, like what is going on in the real world around me.

In the real world of the grade school, the junior high, or the high school in my area, autistic kids are not getting a decent education, simply because they are autistic and considered to have an overgeneralized disability that prevents them from learning anything. It is not like their strengths and weaknesses are being taken into account, and a special education plan is being created for each of them, so they need to be acknowledged as disabled to get access to these magic mushroom disability accommodations. There are no magic mushrooms. Intsead, they were diagnosed with autism, so they are automatically considered to be deficient in intellectual funcitoning 4evar and evar and evar, so they are considered to be incapable of learning, unless they can show themselves to be high-functioning, verbal, IQ-average, and capable of being mainstreamed. If you are not all of these, then you are farked in the school system here. If you suck at taking IQ tests or standardized tests, then you get a nice shiny MR label to go with your autism on your school records, and you are really farking farked in that case.

Why are you not mainstreamed? Oh yes, that must be because you are too intellectually disabled and therefore incapable of learning. If you can't learn from spoken lessons, then you are farked. You are assumed to not be able to learn at all. If you get frustrated due to your lack of communication skills or one of your rigidity issues, then you are farked. You are not classroom-ready due to your horrible behaviors. Oh look at the autistic kid acting out like a little monkey, let's all stand around and stare. I am not talking about kids with profound autism and/or severe mental retardation. I am talking about a regular autistic kid, not an outlier. Some of the kids who are verbal and high-functioning but still not mainstreamed also end up learning nothing in the special education classroom. The teachers and students sit around all day watching YouTube videos. One Aspie kid who did a computer project on his own showed it to his teachers and was still not acknowledged as being capable, just because he is there, disabled and incapable in the special education classroom. Oh break me off a piece of that kit kat bar, you couldn't possibly have done that, you have Asperger's, and you can't do stuff like that, don't you know that?


You know, the solution is to change society, and not our vocabulary.


_________________
Living with one neurodevelopmental disability which has earned me a few diagnosis'


XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 43
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

28 Oct 2012, 11:27 am

littlelily613 wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
By definition, Asperger's Disorder is disabling by the DSM-IV-TR ("quite disabling" is a direct quote).

If you want it to be called a difference, well, why not just don't say you have it? It's a clinical entity that has overwhelming supporting evidence that says it's a disorder that is disabling.

Also, If you don't have any problems, no disability in comparison to matched peers, then how would you know you have it? Why would you be said to have it? Why would you even look it up? Why would you care at all? It doesn't make sense.


Agreed!


This.

Sssoooooo much this.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


EsotericResearch
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 390

28 Oct 2012, 2:57 pm

y-pod wrote:
I

If an aspie kid is struggling in school, real life is gonna be even harder. It doesn't get easier as you age. You might LOOK less autistic due to experience and adaptations, but inside you're still different, and living with NTs are exhausting. I don't think I have accepted it as a "disability" until the last year or two. At least I don't beat up myself for things I just can't seem to manage any more.

Having a job and your own place is great for aspies, as well as finding the right person to marry. Having children is usually not that great for aspies, though. It tend to bring out the worst problems you never know you had. I stopped having meltdowns back when I was 8, and rarely have shutdowns as I'm an articulate person. :(


I've had the opposite experience, and found the (profession I'm in) community to be a place where I fit in. And the autism label is important to explain to people who ask, 'why I act this way'. 'Real life' is much easier for me than school... I had an awful time in special ed, did well in regular ed, and have a great time as an adult. While having kids might be difficult for some, other autistics can handle parenting autistic kids, better than NTs would. Many autistics also work in childcare.

If I considered myself "disabled", it would be highly disingenous. Most NTs I know struggle - with unemployment, law enforcement issues, drugs, etc. Some NTs I grew up with went through teenage pregnancy or getting involved in the wrong crowd. In my experience, NTs are more likely than auties to get caught up in bad credit and relying on 'cash for gold' and check-cashing places. Looking at those NT vs AS statistics, have you looked at the NT side of the issue too in terms of living independently and the like? I doubt it's much different.

Most NTs I know have a low net worth and employment issues, and they might not take psych meds, but they take meds for all sorts of physical ailments. If NTism is a disability because of that, then autism is a disability. What I'm trying to say is that while some autism is a disability, not all autism is a disability or should be considered one. This is not a slur, or shame against disabled people. It is like - here's an extended metaphor.

A black guy is not given a chance under Jim Crow, but a white guy is. Yet, they have the same capacity to succeed. An autie guy acts different than an NT guy, but they have the same capacity to succeed, so of course I oppose discriminating the autie based on how they carry themselves.

But as to whether it is a 'disability', is being gay/black/Jewish an infringement on a major life activity, when we see the person and not the race/etc? The explanation for being autistic is like, explaining to Christians that you might be a bit stressed cuz you're fasting for Ramadan. It's more about understanding why a person acts a certain way, than about "what you can't do".



btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

28 Oct 2012, 3:21 pm

I have a purrrty typical set of autism-related impairments, but I don't feel like I am disabled, that I can't do certain things at all. I feel like I can do purrrty much what I wanna do, but I have to find my own way of doing things. Typical ways don't work for me. It's hard to figure out how to work around sensory issues, communication differences, thinking differences, me being rigid and perfectionist. The social stuff, I don't care about, fortunately.

That's been the pattern of my life, finding my own ways of doing things. Someone told me recently that I usually got what I needed in terms of educational help as a kid, because I always followed my way and never conformed to anyone else's way, and that was why my parents and teachers all had to give in to me, just because they couldn't get through to me due to me being too autistic, too rigid to accept anyone else's perspective or even to know what they wanted me to do and why.

I also don't mind the term high-functioning for myself. I have always felt high-functioning on the inside. I have always felt capable. I didn't feel that there was a problem when I had major communication impairments as a kid. The impairments were irrelevant to me, as I had nothing to communicate anyway, and the idear of communicating almost never occurred to me. But I was not seen as unable to learn language for communication, so I got the chance to learn it (be taught it). Not eberry autistic child is so lucky. Some are not taught language in the way that they need to learn it. They are forced to conform to someone else's way of trying to listen and speak, when they would do bester starting from reading and writing. So no wonder they can't learn that way and are considered incapable.



EsotericResearch
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 390

28 Oct 2012, 8:41 pm

IMO, different folks are higher functioning at different times, and lower functioning at others. I am ambivalent about those terms? But maybe terms like, people who are more profoundly autistic, and less profoundly autistic.



littlelily613
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,608
Location: Canada

29 Oct 2012, 8:56 pm

EsotericResearch wrote:
IMO, different folks are higher functioning at different times, and lower functioning at others. I am ambivalent about those terms? But maybe terms like, people who are more profoundly autistic, and less profoundly autistic.


I can't speak for anyone here, but I know *I* would NEVER go around saying "I am less profoundly autistic". High-functioning classic autism works just great for me.


_________________
Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


Tuttle
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,088
Location: Massachusetts

29 Oct 2012, 11:18 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
EsotericResearch wrote:
IMO, different folks are higher functioning at different times, and lower functioning at others. I am ambivalent about those terms? But maybe terms like, people who are more profoundly autistic, and less profoundly autistic.


I can't speak for anyone here, but I know *I* would NEVER go around saying "I am less profoundly autistic". High-functioning classic autism works just great for me.


I use "less visibly autistic".