Angry at folk that think there hard working.

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Fnord
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07 Mar 2013, 6:12 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Fnord wrote:

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." -- Seneca the Younger (4 BC to 65 AD), Roman dramatist, philosopher, & politician.

"It is bad luck to be unprepared for an opportunity." -- Fnord's Corollary to Seneca's Maxim

Too simplistic, doesn't account for nearly enough variables.

It works for me!

Verdandi wrote:

Does feed into the whole "bootstrap" nonsense that so much of modern society seems to cling to, though.

What do you want, quick inspiration that inspires you to work out your own best way, or a set of instructions that covers every possible opportunity that may come along?

:lol:

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Nonperson
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07 Mar 2013, 6:18 pm

I agree. An awful lot of people who think they are hard working and like to talk about how success is just hard work are people who had next to no obstacles, disadvantages, disabilities, burdens, etc. whatsoever. They don't think about it because they consider themselves normal and assume everyone is like them, though they are actually a lucky minority.

Fnord
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07 Mar 2013, 6:25 pm

Nonperson wrote:

Hello? Did you read This Post?

Nonperson wrote:

They don't think about it because they consider themselves normal and assume everyone is like them, though they are actually a lucky minority.

1. I do not think of myself as "normal" (whatever that is).

2. I know that no one else is like me.

3. I make my own "luck".

Go ahead and re-read that post I linked to - especially the 3rd, 4th, and 5th paragraphs - until it all sinks in.

BTDT
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07 Mar 2013, 6:41 pm

There is the practical reality that if you congratulate people on their success, they are much more likely to spread the wealth your way.

This is particularly valuable if you have any interest in meeting people or socializing.

Last edited by BTDT on 07 Mar 2013, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nonperson
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07 Mar 2013, 6:44 pm

Fnord, how the hell does "an awful lot of people" translate to "you"?

Although actually, your earlier story is similar to mine. The differences in the middle story are strongly related to me being female. Hm.

Fnord
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07 Mar 2013, 7:34 pm

Nonperson wrote:

Fnord, how the hell does "an awful lot of people" translate to "you"?

Okay ... point taken ... I apologize.

I'm a little touchy about how hard work doesn't seem to matter to those who rely on "luck" to get them through life. People I've known seem to always put down my greater success to theirs as "luck", without regard to the years of study and labor I've invested into getting myself this far - compared to how they've sloughed of their education and taken whatever jobs just happen to be available.

Nonperson wrote:

Although actually, your earlier story is similar to mine. The differences in the middle story are strongly related to me being female.

In what way?

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07 Mar 2013, 8:38 pm

Fnord wrote:

It works for me!

It doesn't work for everyone. If you believe it works for you there are almost certainly factors you do not notice, do not acknowledge, or do not admit to. Yes, you did put in a lot of hard work, but so have I, and it hasn't really done me much good. Most of the things you list as factors of your success are applicable to me as well, but I did not achieve those same things. I am not strictly being negative here - if anything, I think the insistence that everyone can achieve whatever they want if they're only willing to apply themselves is a fairly negative perspective, since it leads to blaming people for circumstances that may very well not be under their control.

The fact that people who attribute their success to their own efforts does not mean that such a belief is accurate, or at least not fully accurate. The assumption that those who did not do as well don't try hard enough is pretty blatantly wrong.

Quote:

What do you want, quick inspiration that inspires you to work out your own best way, or a set of instructions that covers every possible opportunity that may come along?

This question makes no sense to me. No set of instructions can cover every possible opportunity that may come along, and inspiration is not something that arrives on demand. Circumstances do not always work out as planned or intended, and everything that happens to you is not the consequence of your own actions.

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07 Mar 2013, 8:39 pm

Fnord wrote:

I'm a little touchy about how hard work doesn't seem to matter to those who rely on "luck" to get them through life. People I've known seem to always put down my greater success to theirs as "luck", without regard to the years of study and labor I've invested into getting myself this far - compared to how they've sloughed of their education and taken whatever jobs just happen to be available.

I'm a little touchy about people who seem to believe that hard work is the primary thing that matters. Or assume that those who did not do as well "sloughed off their education and taken whatever jobs happen to be available."

auntblabby
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07 Mar 2013, 9:49 pm

working hard will only put you in a premature grave. working SMART, now THAT is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

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07 Mar 2013, 9:51 pm

auntblabby wrote:

working hard will only put you in a premature grave. working SMART, now THAT is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

Why not do both?

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07 Mar 2013, 9:52 pm

I had luck and did work, lotsa both.

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auntblabby
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07 Mar 2013, 10:01 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

working hard will only put you in a premature grave. working SMART, now THAT is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

Why not do both?

because the smart set knows how to do things in the most streamlined manner, saving their energy to do more of same.

marshall
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07 Mar 2013, 10:33 pm

auntblabby wrote:

working hard will only put you in a premature grave. working SMART, now THAT is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

Maybe this is off topic but I seriously don't get why Americans harp constantly on "success" and "hard work". I find the whole notion that the sole purpose of life is to be as independent as possible, make as much money as possible, find a mate, get married, buy a house, and spread on your genes annoying. Seeing that notion repeated over and over again on this forum nauseates me after a while. It's as if someone is constantly standing over your shoulder telling you that you MUST desire those things and if you don't achieve them you must accept the label of "failure". I say that's an absolute load of crock. Seriously, what is the point of "working hard" towards someone else's ideal and driving yourself into the ground, snuffing any and all joy out of your life just so people won't ridicule and look down on you. This obsessive American glorification and worship of "hard work" and making money is pretty damn bleak if you ask me. Seriously, what is the point? You live an empty pointless life and then you die!

Also, what's with this annoying black-and-white BS that the world is divided into "successful folks" (which is by definition synonymous with being wealthy) and "unsuccessful folks" (which is synonymous with being poor). Apparently there is no possible middle ground. You must either find a way to become wealthy or you must live your life in constant fear of being dumped on the street and left to rot.

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07 Mar 2013, 10:40 pm

If there's a vote, I vote in favor of this thread moving to PPR......

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07 Mar 2013, 10:53 pm

Marshall wrote:

what's with this annoying black-and-white BS that the world is divided into "successful folks" (which is by definition synonymous with being wealthy) and "unsuccessful folks" (which is synonymous with being poor). Apparently there is no possible middle ground. You must either find a way to become wealthy or you must live your life in constant fear of being dumped on the street and left to rot.

i cannot work hard, nor can i work smart. that is just the way i am made, like it or not. i am in the middle of dealing with an acquaintance who felt driven to attempted suicide due to the fact that this person also could not work hard nor smart, much to the chagrin of the parents of said person. america is a darwinian place to be if you are not in the smart or lucky set.

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08 Mar 2013, 1:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Marshall wrote:

When you self-flagellate like this all you're doing is submitting to the dominant American mindset which is a load of crock. There are a ton of intelligent, even brilliant, people in this country who either struggle to exist or must be depend on others. I can easily tell you are more intelligent than average so stop calling yourself "stupid". It's obnoxious to me. Being "successful" in modern American society has a lot more to do with having high stress tolerance and an ability to sell yourself well than raw intelligence.

Also, sometimes parents just need to be told to go f**k themselves. If your parents are too selfish to accept you for what you are and insist on imposing their own standards out of pure egotism, then you're probably overestimating the amount of love they have for you if you think you can somehow get back at them by offing yourself. If they are that selfish then they probably could care less if you live or die and only feel disappointed that you aren't some kind of trophy to them. People like that don't have the right to reproduce.

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