Page 2 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 8:27 am

qawer wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Do many people on here smirk, smile or laugh to themselves as a non-verbal way of putting other people down?

I find this is common behaviour among a lot of people (I'm loathe to use the term NTs but it seems to fit a lot of the time)

I would like to know why people do this as this type of behaviour seems to be alien to my brain but seems to come naturally to the majority

It's as if every interaction has to be a 'win' for them to the extent that they have to be seen to be visually deriding the other person to 'prove' it to themselves


Because of an autistic thinking pattern (is my guess).

Life is about survival/existence. All social mechanisms are a result of that.

Life is trying to survive in all sorts of ways. One of the attempts to survive is the natural selection process going on among the human species. There is greater possibility of survival if the strongest/most fit survive. So you may very well be right in that many people "smirk, smile or laugh to themselves as a non-verbal way of putting other people down". They realize (unconsciously opposite me) that they are part of a competition (the natural selection). They do it because they want to survive. That's why you experience they want to see themselves "win".

If you think in autistic terms you don't see yourself as part of that competition. But you are. You cannot escape it, simply because you are alive. You are a potential thread towards the survival of others, whether you like it or not.



nessa238 wrote:
I find it an incredibly unpleasant way to be and the fact many people do it shows it's very common behaviour

What goes through the heads of people who do this smirking to themself thing? "Oh God what a ret*d! I'm so superior to them!" ??


In fact I don't think much is "going on" in their heads. If they are not autistic, it comes to them naturally to think in terms of survival. They have thought that way all their lives. They probably won't understand why you could possibly have so much against it. They have never seen the world through autistic eyes. It's a fundamentally different view. Autistic minds think life is/should be about something other than survival. Non-autistic minds think life is/should be about survival only. What viewpoint do you agree more with?

It is common behaviour. It's part of survival. If you don't fight for your life, you won't survive. That includes participating in the natural competition between humans.

Sometimes it's more beneficial for survival to compete (dating scene, jobs, etc.). Sometimes it's more beneficial for survival to cooperate (family, friends, girl-/boyfriends). Everything is dictated by the desire to survive.


nessa238 wrote:
It's like they need to be seen as superior - nothing can be neutral to them.


nessa238 wrote:
I seem to be 10000 times more sensitive to all this stuff than the average person



The fact that it bothers you is actually also "merely" a part of the selection process. Being an autistic myself I completely relate to you. It can be and is really hideous sometimes. But letting it bother you is indirectly nature's way of saying you aren't tough enough to deal with survival.

In my experience, if one wants to accept it one has to embrace the survival/existence of the human species with all what that implies. It's very difficult, however, having an autistic mind.

But ask yourself: what's the most important ever in this world? You have to answer "my life". What could possibly be more important than your life? If you did not have that, you would not have anything else. Your life is so important that you could never let some natural selection bother you! It's in that sense that one should care much less about what people do. The only thing that matters is what the people who have some relevance to your life do. Everything else means nothing! Life is basically very superficial because it is based on survival. One has to accept that. It can be very difficult having an autistic mind that wants everything to have a deeper meaning.


I agree totally with all you're saying

I can understand and accept it in theory but when it's actually happening it's a lot harder to accept

I've always known it's like a fight for the survival of your genes and with being autistic it's as if the fight is harder as the majority possibly senses unconsciously that my genes are of a different nature and hence less related to theirs so they are even more determined to kick them out of the gene-pool!

I therefore see it as my duty to not let them win! I might not pass my genes on but I can still have influence in the world and help to improve it. I just have to mitigate for my sensitivity by not letting myself be over-exposed to all this competitive hostility as I am very prone to depression.



Last edited by nessa238 on 15 Mar 2013, 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 8:30 am

qawer wrote:
CoolWhipp wrote:
I'm not sure what to say here, you've probably heard this a thousand times but it doesn't matter what others think, those people who judge are basically like sheep; they follow stereotypes and social rules and don't have a mind of their own.


Exactly. Only care about things that really concern your own life. I know it may feel like this actually concerns your life, but it really doesn't. Your life is too important to let them ruin or even have a negative impact on it.


I don't think you realise the degree to which they do impact on my life though.

Having seen your photo I don't think your experiences are going to have been in the same category as mine.

It's not a matter of not letting people impact on me - they do - I'm like emotional blotting paper if I'm around people.
I have no 'ignore' or 'off-switch' for how people act towards me like the majority seem to. How they act overwhelms me and becomes the whole world while it's happening.

Also, the importance a person places on their own life is directly related to how important they were made to feel they were by their parents, siblings and peer group

I have not been given the message that I am particularly important to or by these people, hence it can't be conjured up out of nowhere.

Therefore I am good at being modest and not 'up myself' like most people are but I also have self-esteem issues that can often make me feel worthless and then to counter this I get very angry and egotistical - my sense of self is not stable - it is very environment and interaction-dependent.



Last edited by nessa238 on 15 Mar 2013, 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 8:31 am

CoolWhipp wrote:
I'm not sure what to say here, you've probably heard this a thousand times but it doesn't matter what others think, those people who judge are basically like sheep; they follow stereotypes and social rules and don't have a mind of their own.


Knowing that fact and not being affected by their behaviour are two very different things though



CoolWhipp
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 15
Location: Australia

15 Mar 2013, 8:51 am

Imo it's impossible to not be affected in some way because the world is being affected by people every day. The important thing is how you take it, there opinions will have little affect if you don't give your power to them.

"I therefore see it as my duty to not let them win! I might not pass my genes on but I can still have influence in the world and help to improve it."

- Anyone who wishes to help the world is important



qawer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,252

15 Mar 2013, 8:58 am

nessa238 wrote:
qawer wrote:
CoolWhipp wrote:
I'm not sure what to say here, you've probably heard this a thousand times but it doesn't matter what others think, those people who judge are basically like sheep; they follow stereotypes and social rules and don't have a mind of their own.


Exactly. Only care about things that really concern your own life. I know it may feel like this actually concerns your life, but it really doesn't. Your life is too important to let them ruin or even have a negative impact on it.


I don't think you realise the degree to which they do impact on my life though.

Having seen your photo I don't think your experiences are going to have been in the same category as mine.

It's not a matter of not letting people impact on me - they do - I'm like emotional blotting paper if I'm around people.
I have no 'ignore' or 'off-switch' for how people act towards me like the majority seem to. How they act overwhelms me and becomes the whole world while it's happening.

Also, the importance a person places on their own life is directly related to how important they were made to feel they were by their parents, siblings and peer group

I have not been given the message that I am particularly important to or by these people, hence it can't be conjured up out of nowhere.



I believe you are right. They probably have not been in the same category. But I know the feeling when "someone overwhelms me and becomes the whole world while it's happening." I can relate to that.

This happens exactly when one thinks too much in autistic terms. You become this small, sensitive, confused individual to whom the world seems very unfriendly.

The best coping technique I've come across is being more "irritated" with your surroundings. The problem is thinking too much about the surroundings instead of yourself. Being irritated with your surroundings in a healthy way is a sign that you think more about yourself! This is what autistics need to do more.

In practice when you experience this sort of thing, next time try to think:

"I'm very irritated with my surroundings. They should be concerned about my life, because my life is what is important. Well, since they don't I'll have to do it myself, and I'll do everything it takes."

Perhaps it seems weird. But it is needed to think your life is the first most important thing, as it is... You need to not only think it, but actually feel it.

Look at the face of this guy:

Image

That's the kind of annoyance I'm talking about. Not saying you should be that extreme. But some more of this is actually what is needed.



nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 9:16 am

qawer wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
qawer wrote:
CoolWhipp wrote:
I'm not sure what to say here, you've probably heard this a thousand times but it doesn't matter what others think, those people who judge are basically like sheep; they follow stereotypes and social rules and don't have a mind of their own.


Exactly. Only care about things that really concern your own life. I know it may feel like this actually concerns your life, but it really doesn't. Your life is too important to let them ruin or even have a negative impact on it.


I don't think you realise the degree to which they do impact on my life though.

Having seen your photo I don't think your experiences are going to have been in the same category as mine.

It's not a matter of not letting people impact on me - they do - I'm like emotional blotting paper if I'm around people.
I have no 'ignore' or 'off-switch' for how people act towards me like the majority seem to. How they act overwhelms me and becomes the whole world while it's happening.

Also, the importance a person places on their own life is directly related to how important they were made to feel they were by their parents, siblings and peer group

I have not been given the message that I am particularly important to or by these people, hence it can't be conjured up out of nowhere.



I believe you are right. They probably have not been in the same category. But I know the feeling when "someone overwhelms me and becomes the whole world while it's happening." I can relate to that.

This happens exactly when one thinks too much in autistic terms. You become this small, sensitive, confused individual to whom the world seems very unfriendly.

The best coping technique I've come across is being more "irritated" with your surroundings. The problem is thinking too much about the surroundings instead of yourself. Being irritated with your surroundings in a healthy way is a sign that you think more about yourself! This is what autistics need to do more.

In practice when you experience this sort of thing, next time try to think:

"I'm very irritated with my surroundings. They should be concerned about my life, because my life is what is important. Well, since they don't I'll have to do it myself, and I'll do everything it takes."

Perhaps it seems weird. But it really is a sign that you love yourself. You love yourself enough to think your life is the first most important thing, as it is... You need to not only think it, but actually feel it.


Being irritated and angry with people and how they act is the story of my life so in that respect I do rate myself

I see the extent to which people never make life easy for me as a reflection of invariably being attributed lower than average status and this incenses me when I see people who do nothing more than look the part and get instant respect and admiration!

Life feels like an ongoing struggle against a societal attitude of rejection

Yes I can get angry and make my point and get the stuff I need to get done done but I feel why does it have to be made so hard for me but so easy for others on such random and shallow criteria?

I can't forgive society for not valuing me enough!



Falloy
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

15 Mar 2013, 9:25 am

I absolutely hate this behaviour and it affects me a lot when it is done to me - I can become furiously angry and/or depressed for hours or days.

It seems to me a very immature thing to do and, maybe as a consequence I associate it with adolescents. I was on the receiving end of it a lot at school. It almost always happened when there was a group of them and I was alone. They would begin grinning at one another, making eye contact with one another and rolling their eyes. Sometimes laughing out loud. I always took it that they were enjoying feeling superior to me and bonding over this shared feeling. They were positioning themselves higher up the social order than me.

Most people tend to grow out of this behaviour but not all - my boss still does it a bit and he's in his sixties!

Even though I'm middle-aged now I always feel bad when it happens, as if I've made a "mistake", as if I still haven't learned the trick of blending in I also feel ugly as I think they're laughing at my appearance. No amount of positive thought trying to believe in myself helps

The most cutting thing is just how much actual pleasure they seem to get from doing it.



nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 9:33 am

Falloy wrote:
I absolutely hate this behaviour and it affects me a lot when it is done to me - I can become furiously angry and/or depressed for hours or days.

It seems to me a very immature thing to do and, maybe as a consequence I associate it with adolescents. I was on the receiving end of it a lot at school. It almost always happened when there was a group of them and I was alone. They would begin grinning at one another, making eye contact with one another and rolling their eyes. Sometimes laughing out loud. I always took it that they were enjoying feeling superior to me and bonding over this shared feeling. They were positioning themselves higher up the social order than me.

Most people tend to grow out of this behaviour but not all - my boss still does it a bit and he's in his sixties!

Even though I'm middle-aged now I always feel bad when it happens, as if I've made a "mistake", as if I still haven't learned the trick of blending in I also feel ugly as I think they're laughing at my appearance. No amount of positive thought trying to believe in myself helps

The most cutting thing is just how much actual pleasure they seem to get from doing it.


Sorry to hear you feel like this :(

I can relate totally, especially the part about feeling you have made a 'mistake' and not blended in successfully enough - I feel like this - however low-key and unobtrusive I try and make myself it's like there's some big neon sign flashing above my head saying 'Queue here to abuse!' And I know that this will be affecting the vibe I give out to people.

These people are sadistic in the pleasure they take in another person's discomfort and misery - I hate them!

I was once in some pubic toilets and a group of young women were in there and they were the loud type who might be likely to say something insulting about me to each other if they noticed me so I was trying to act invisible while I washed my hands at the sink.

As they left the toilets I heard one say to another 'Did you see that? It's a shame isn't it?'

So if they're not actively insulting me they're pitying me! and I've done precisely NOTHING to them - not even glanced at them!

Never mind what exactly she meant by 'it's a shame' - in what respect exactly??

That comment drives me mad with speculation to this day as when I question friends on just how weird or unattractive I really am, they say I look normal to them!

But that just doesn't square with the evidence of other peoples' reactions!



Last edited by nessa238 on 15 Mar 2013, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

qawer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,252

15 Mar 2013, 9:38 am

nessa238 wrote:
I can't forgive society for not valuing me enough!


I understand that viewpoint. They are saying aspergers/autism is a pervasive developmental disorder. It's not for no reason they call it a disorder. Their opinion is definitely something is wrong about having aspergers. They are not valuing that kind of good-heartedness i know from asperger people.

It's because that kind of good-heartedness is not really beneficial to survival. When it is not, it is not valued by society. It's sad it has to be that way.



Last edited by qawer on 15 Mar 2013, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

15 Mar 2013, 9:40 am

qawer wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I can't forgive society for not valuing me enough!


I understand that viewpoint. They are saying aspergers/autism is a pervasive developmental disorder. It's not for no reason they call it a disorder. Their opinion is definitely something is wrong about having aspergers. They are not valuing that kind of good-heartedness i know from asperger people.

It's because that kind of good-heartedness is not really beneficial to survival. When it is not, it is not valued by society.


I know and I get sick of it as the world needs a lot more not less good-heartedness! :(

I feel I need to stay alive if only to say there is another way to be - a NICE WAY!

As well as the vulnerability, Aspergers has given me stubbornness as well and these people will never make me become like them!

I have to be here to help the other nice, non-smirking people as we need all the help we can get!



qawer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,252

15 Mar 2013, 10:02 am

nessa238 wrote:
qawer wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I can't forgive society for not valuing me enough!


I understand that viewpoint. They are saying aspergers/autism is a pervasive developmental disorder. It's not for no reason they call it a disorder. Their opinion is definitely something is wrong about having aspergers. They are not valuing that kind of good-heartedness i know from asperger people.

It's because that kind of good-heartedness is not really beneficial to survival. When it is not, it is not valued by society.


I know and I get sick of it as the world needs a lot more not less good-heartedness! :(

I feel I need to stay alive if only to say there is another way to be - a NICE WAY!

As well as the vulnerability, Aspergers has given me stubbornness as well and these people will never make me become like them!

I have to be here to help the other nice, non-smirking people as we need all the help we can get!



It's because there are opposing forces. Society in general is convinced survival is the most important thing there is. You don't truly agree with that. Good-heartedness, for instance, is in your eyes in the end more important, even if it does not promote survival.

I've been in this dilemma for a long time. It's the neurotypical vs autistic dilemma. You are really autistic but you cannot escape the neurotypical aspects of life because you are living. It's a fact. I don't think there is an easy solution. You may have to accept that you want to survive, but at the same time you believe life should be about more than that.

It's definitely true that the more accepting you'll be that life is merely about survival, the more you'll accept the world, people and their attitudes.