Transcript part one:
Kim Masters interviewing Alex Plank on KCRW's "The Business: Creating Authentic Autistic TV Characters"
KIM: You may remember some months ago when our guests were the showrunners on the FX series "The Bridge." That show features an autistic character and we were intrigued at the time to learn that the lead actress in the show, Diane Kruger, relies on an autism consultant to make sure she gets the role right.
Today we talk with that consultant, who is autistic himself, and with an actor who isn't autistic but has played an autistic child on the NBC series "Parenthood" for years.
We use the term 'Aspergers' in these conversations interchangeably with the term autism, but, earlier this year, the American Psychiatric Association dropped the term 'Aspergers' and replaced it with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Alex Plank was diagnosed with that when he was nine years old.
As a teenager, he co-created an online community for people with autism and he hosts and produces an online show called "Autism Talk TV." He's also working on a documentary called, "Shameful." It's about how autistic children are treated or mistreated in France.
For the past year, he's been a consultant on FX's "The Bridge." He was brought in to help hone the character of Sonya Cross, played by Diane Kruger.
ALEX: So, Chuck Saffter at FX called me on the phone. And I had never met Chuck. He was on the board of Autism Speaks--and he still is--and he had heard about me through Autism Speaks because I work with them through my website. We partner with them to produce an online TV show called "Autism Talk TV.
KIM: I mean, was this your job? Is this your gig? What were you doing when Chuck called you, professionally?
ALEX: I went to school for film, so I've been been producing and directing films--mainly documentaries, right now--actually, entirely documentaries--and this TV show, and I run a website for people with autism. That's my main business.
KIM: I mean, do you watch a lot of TV shows and films?
ALEX: I watch a lot of TV shows and films.
KIM: Always did?
ALEX: Yes, I've always watched a lot of TV shows and films.
KIM: I mean, I'm curious about it because, you know, you're seeing a whole set of interactions--which I guess you see every day--and are you sitting there and going, "that is different from what I would do?" <laughs>
ALEX: When I watch a character with autism, you mean?
KIM: No, when you..
ALEX: When I'm watching a neurotypical character on television.
KIM: Exactly, thats an expression I didn't know--Neurotypical, yes.
ALEX: Yes, that means someone without autism.
KIM: OK.
ALEX: When I watch TV, especially as a kid, I would actually watch characters and copy their mannerisms and use that for learning social skills. So I watch a lot of TV. Sometimes, though, what people do on TV is not always the best thing to do.
KIM: <laughing> That's true. It's not necessarily the model for-- so, did you have to do a lot of work to--I mean, we're sitting here and, you know, one of the known things that everybody talks about with autism, or what's been called Aspergers, is lack of eye contact, yet you're making a lot of eye contact. Have you had to learn that?
ALEX: Yes. Every social skill that I've displayed now, every social skill that I've learned, I've had to work really hard to actually learn. Because, unlike people who aren't on the autism spectrum, it's incredibly difficult to learn these social skills and be able to read body language and learn what each little body language signifies--or signals to the other person.
And I worked really hard in college. I would just watch people--watch people who were socially adept and copy their manerisms and eventually things became natural. I sort of integrated it.
KIM: Interesting! So then you're--you're sitting there doing your website and making your films and this person from FX calls you…
ALEX: And we talk for about 15 minutes and he says, "well, let me get one of the writers to call you and he wants to ask you some questions and that'll probably be it, you know, just answer some questions that... we can help make this character more accurate.
And so, I got a call from Elwood the next week and
KIM: Elwood: tell us who that is.
ALEX: Elwood Reid is the showrunner on--
KIM: Oh yes, he's been a guest on the--
ALEX: Yes. So Elwood and Meredith Stiehm are the showrunners for "The Bridge" and Elwood called me up and asked me quite a few questions about this character--Sonya Cross is her name, and she's played by Diane Kruger. And she is on the autism spectrum.
KIM: Not Diane Kruger, but the character.
ALEX: The character is on the autism spectrum, that's correct. And so, Elwood asked me questions about what I would do in certain situations, what I thought about possible mannerisms that she would exhibit. And he said, "oh well, come in, we'll buy you lunch, and, you know, come talk to the writers."
So, the week after that, I went over to the writers' room, which was actually at the stages--where they shoot the show. And the writers' room is sort of an intimidating experience because there is this room full of writers and producers--and they are just inundating me with questions. Asking me, like, personal questions about my life. What I would do in certain situations. What other people with Aspergers would do in certain situations that I wouldn't do. What kind of character traits would be interesting for her to display. And various other things that were related to the autism spectrum such as body language, miscommunication, and being obsessed with a particular subject.
In this case Sonya is obsessed with crime and solving crimes and police work.
And so, this took three hours. So I was in there for three hours. And then we finished and they told me that they wanted me to talk with Diane Kruger.
So, the week after that, I went to the Shine America Building where -- which produces the Bridge and met with Diane. And the meeting went really well, and after that the said they wanted to hire me to come on the show.
KIM: Wow!
ALEX: Like, on a regular basis. Like any time she's there I'm sitting there with the director and the writer and producers in the video village, watching every take that she does and if she does something that's not autistic enough then I might mention it to her. And tell her, you know, "hey this is what I would do in this situation" or various--
KIM: Can you give me an example? Or is there something that stands out?
ALEX: Well: so, in the pilot--and we reshot a couple of scenes in the pilot with the new information related to the autism. So this one scene is where she goes and visits the husband of a judge--
KIM: Who was a murder victim.
ALEX: Yes, that's right.
KIM: Um hmm--the judge was a murder victim.
ALEX: And, when she goes to the house, right before hand her boss, Hank--who is sort of her mentor--He says, "remember eye contact." And so, we reshot the scene with all these autism things added in. one of the things that she did that she took from me is--is a stim. And so, if you don't know what stimming is, it's basically a repetitive movement that you make. It's kind of the same as fidgeting but more intense. You could flap your hands.. when you're kids you might spin your arms around. When you get older sometimes you'll turn them into more socially acceptable stims. So what she did and what she took was: she has a pen and she moves her fingers--and if you notice, the first shot of that scene is on her hand with a pen doing that stim, and then it pans up to her face and not only is she making eye contact, she's staring at the guy. So she took the eye contact directive literally and is completely staring this guy down, making him very uncomfortable.
And another thing that I told her to do in that scene was, in the pilot, when it was originally shot, I noticed that she did not smile at all, in the entire show. And I think that's a little inaccurate. So I told Diane maybe if you want to smile, she should smile in an awkward place. And she says something that's awkward and she smiles when, in reality, that's probably not the right reaction.
KIM: If you're just joining us, I'm Kim Masters and this is The Business from KCRW. We're talking with Alex Plank, a filmmaker and the co-creator of the online autism community Wrong Planet. He's talking about his job as a consultant on the FX show The Bridge, which will return for a second season next summer.
ALEX: Well, I think of all the jobs on a set, like, being a consultant is, like, the least straightforward job you can have. There's no guide to what to do as a consultant. When to say something, when not to. What to comment on, what not to.
So, for someone with Aspergers who likes to have certainty in what they do, it's challenging. But it's also rewarding because it reaches me to be patient and to… Take in other people's views and, like, evaluate what they have to say about things.
KIM: I would imagine at the beginning you would be just terrified to open your mouth!
ALEX: <luaghs> Yeah! The first day I arrived on set, there's all these people there and I didn't know what they did, and who was who and I just sort of gradually got more comfortable with it.
But it was very scary at first--when I should say something. And I was almost afraid. I was like, hey.. maybe she should be… more, like, say this in a more matter of fact tone, because she's just stating a fact. She's not really--there's no em… should be delivered more flatly, I guess--is what...
And there like, "yeah, OK" and they say something, and she does something differently.
KIM: Well they must have been listening very carefully because you're the guy who knows.
ALEX: Yeah. And it was surprising how much of the advice that I gave actually got integrated into the character. I assumed that maybe 10% of what I said would actually be used because certain things might not, or-- But they took everything that I said and they listened to it and they evaluated if it would work and they usually put it in there.
KIM: I'm assuming that the last thing in the world they wanted was a lot of people with autism or parents of people with autism riding down on them saying, "this is not real!"
ALEX: Yeah! That would-- and there's a large community of families with autism. So you would definitely get a backlash if things were not accurate. So I think it was very smart of them to bring in a consultant.
KIM: Do you think it's ever possible for someone who has autism to play autism on TV?
ALEX; You know, it's funny: I think there are a lot of actors on the autism spectrum, because a lot of times when you ask someone who isn't autistic, "why did you do this? Why did you respond this way?" They aren't able to tell you why they did what they did. Whereas people on the autism spectrum have to look at in a way that's… more logical. And think about how you would respond in certain situations. And you actually process it intellectually--these interactions--you have to show your empathy by thinking about, "what would I do to show how I feel right now"
I think that that would be very helpful for actors. Because I feel like I have to act on a daily basis just to fit in or to show empathy. And obviously when I was younger it felt more like acting and now I've integrated it more.
KIM: Coming up ayer a short break: more from Alex Plank and an interview with Alex Burkholder, who pays an autistic character on NBC's Parenthood.
28 Oct 2013, 3:37 pm
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